Well, sadly, it looks as though the Pembroke Priest for Justice, Truth & Integrity (PPJTI) have gone undercover. I had contact from Jennifer Green (Ottawa Citizen) advising she had not heard back from them. She wondered if anyone had heard from them. I had.
I just tried to send an email to PPJTI. It bounced back.
What does this say? Well, certainly they have gone undercover, at least for now. And, at least for now, silence will again prevail.
I can speculate all I want as to the whys. I have no idea. They did not advise and I just don’t know. Perhaps they are re-assessing their tactics? Perhaps they have opted for a different approach? Perhaps they feared for their vocations? Perhaps they got cold feet? I just don’t know.
Will we hear from them again? I certainly hope so.
Meanwhile, for those who have expressed concerns regarding the PPJTI allegations, I have, as I mentioned previously, sent emails to both Archbishops Richard Smith and Brendan O’Brien asking specifically for their responses to the allegations contained in the PPJTI letter. To date, there has been no reply from either of the Archbishops.
I find myself at an awkward juncture here. I believe that should a similar circumstance arise in the future I would hold until I know the identity of at least one priest. For a variety of reasons I didn’t want to and don’t want to go that route. I believe however that hopes have been raised which, at least for the time being, are dashed. I don’t want to be party to that again.
Do I believe the PJTI is legit? Yes. I said so at the beginning, and I still do. I would not have posted the letter had I believed otherwise.
How many in the group? I don’t know. I have reason to believe that perhaps it is one priest speaking for a group, witness the following email 26 August 2010:Q & A between PPJTI and me:
Q: Can you tell me how many priests agreed that it was necessary to take this action?
A: Suffice it to say that there are many priests who are very upset about these matters but are afraid to have there names stand, for obvious reasons.
Do I believe their allegations are valid? I can say only that I believe it is possible. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time the Catholic faithful have learned that a bishop failed to respond to allegations of clerical abuse against one of his priests. Furthermore, in light of the information I have regarding Father Lorne Whalen, I believe it is indeed possible that the Priest’s allegations are valid.
I will add here a response I received 26 August 2010 from the person fielding the PPJTI emails.
“ I know priests who alerted Borne‘s behaviour to both O’Brien and Smith. Smith became bishop of Pembroke in 2002 and was appointed Archbishop of Edmonton in 2007. I personally know priests who spoke to him and alerted him about Borne.”
I had hoped, and still hope, for particulars on this, ie., in what manner were the bishops alerted, who did the alerting, and what was the response.
For now, we will have to wait. I am terribly disappointed. That I suppose is easy for me to say when it’s not my neck on the chopping block. Still, I pray PPJTI is simply regrouping, has not gone deep underground and has not lost heart and courage.
What more can I say?
My sincere apologies for this unwelcome news.
Enough for now,
Sylvia
Sylvia said:
“For now, we will have to wait. I am terribly disappointed. That I suppose is easy for me to say when it’s not my neck on the chopping block. Still, I pray PPJTI is simply regrouping, has not gone deep underground and has not lost heart and courage. My sincere apologies for this unwelcome news.”
Sylvia, it is a setback alright nevertheless, sadly these things do happened. It’s like going back to square one.
I’m from the Pembroke Diocese and it is a very conservative area. I for one I am NOT disappointed in you, Sylvia. Keep up your courage! The work you do is very much appreciated and very important.
I believe when a door is closed an another door will soon eventually open.
Sincerely,
Lina
Thanks Lina 🙂
Is it not eerily quiet now that the PPJTI seem to have gone .
Perhaps they were just a ruse by someone prone to mischief.
Tim
Yes Tim – an eerie quiet for sure. I was thinking exactly the same thing. I’m not sure though that PPJTI was just a ruse. I could be mistaken but I still think they were legit. I do however think people are feeling terribly let down.
Maybe it has something to do about this Monsignor’s case coming up on 13 September 2010: Father Robert Borne (Pembroke)?
It has many people and clergy in the Pembroke Diocese on edge. Some people I spoke to, thinks eventually Monsignor Borne will be cleared of the rest of the charges because the other numerous charges against him were dropped. This is a high profile case in our area. So much mystery surrounds it.
Anyway, I am glad Father Tim Moyle of Mattawa did not comeback here Sylvia and rubbed it in your face and mine, this is the very reason he would not print that letter from PPJTI without being signed. He said: ‘The answer is an emphatic NO!!!
He wrote a piece about it on his blog and he mentions your name Sylvia.
http://frtimmoyle.blogspot.com/
at his website under the headline: ‘Why I won’t publish anonymous letters on my blog.’ (26 August, 2010)
Furthermore, it is a let down that these priests did not come forward and that is sad.
There is nothing one can do.
The only thing I can do is pray that something else will come up to help the victims.
Lina
Is it just a coincidence that the PPJTI ended their existence at the same time Fr. Moyle ended his loquacaious contributions? I wonder !!! Tim
“Is it just a coincidence that the PPJTI ended their existence at the same time Fr. Moyle ended his loquacaious contributions? I wonder !!! Tim”
I never thought about that angle Tim? A good observation!
I thought Fr. Tim Moyle came across pretty arrogant to Sylvia in a nice way mind you. It is a good thing Sylvia had those numerous documents she posted to show that the former Bishop Brendan O’Brien from the Pembroke Diocese (now an Archbishop in Kingston) knew certain facts. It was post #53 under the headline: “Pembroke Priests for Justice, Truth & Integrity.”
August 31st, 2010 at 12:24 am
“I don’t want to get into a squabble on the whole Father Lorne Whalen business Father. My last word on this is that Bishop O’Brien knew. Believe me, he knew about Father Whalen.
Here is a sample of what Bishop O’Brien knew:
http://www.theinquiry.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/04-May-1998-Bishop-Brendan-OBrien-to-Archbishop-Amrozic-pleading-Father-Lorne-Whalens-cause.pdf
http://www.theinquiry.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/24-October-1996-Archbishop-Aloysius-Ambrozic-letter-to-Bishop-Brendan-O’Brien-regarding-a-complaint-filed-against-Father-Lorne-Whalen-in-the-Toronto-Archdioces-–-withdrawing-Whalen’s-faculties-in-Toronto.pdf
If he didn’t at the very least read the following letter copied to him from Brigadier General Roger Bazin to update on Whalen’s troubles in the military, the above show that he was certainly familiar with Whalen’s troubles in Toronto.
http://www.theinquiry.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Bazin-Withdrawal-of-Ecclesiastical-Mandate0002.pdf
That’s it. We will agree to differ on this. And please do keep my in your prayers. I need and appreciate them.”
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Sylvia replied to Fr. Tim Moyle with grace, tact and with the facts. Good for her!
Lina
Sylvia,
In replying to Tim’s comment.
I should have just posted the # of the post and the headline instead of the whole article. It probably went under spam.
I am truly sorry about that.
I know better next time.
Lina
You’re right Lina, it went into the spam bin – but it was flagged and held aside for my approval. I approved it and there it is, post #7.
I don’t know about your theory Tim. I don’t think it adds up. Would Father Tim go to these lengths to cover his tracks? I don’t think so.
Sylvia, when a Priest or anyone else has as one of their frequent correspondents a self-proclaimed witch, (Lady Janus), anything else is possible. Entering into dialogue with an admitted agent of Satan is a foolish and dangerous bit of recreation ! Tim
I don’t follow Father Tim’s blog so am at a disadvantage on this Tim. I did a quick search on his site and see that a Lady Janus has posted several comments.
A Lady Janus also has a blog: http://www.blogger.com/profile/05467165902363025714
I’m confused on this Tim. I’ve had to re-read your previous post #6 several times. Perhaps I misunderstood. Are you querying in #6 whether or not Father Tim might be the author of the Pemroke Priests for Justice letter? or are you querying if Father Tim might be responsible for forcing PPJTI underground? If I get that sorted perhaps I can sort out what you mean by post #10. Help me out here.
Yes, very sad for you to lose contact with PPJTI, Sylvia. I tend to think Father Tim was doing more than just ‘damage control.’ I think somehow he must have smoked out these priests and silenced them. Sorry if I am jumping to a conclusion here.
Me again, Sylvia. On the Lady Janus blog link you gave, I am terribly naive. What in the world does her ‘photo’ purport to represent?
http://www.blogger.com/profile/05467165902363025714
Sylvia, in #6 I was suggesting Fr. Moyle may well be the sole Priest in the Pembroke Priests for Justice, etc. Just because he attacks anonymity does not mean he was not anonymous in this matter. In the matter of trickery it is called double-back. Tim
Cheryl, click on the image of the Witches blog and you will see what it represents. Tim
Tim,
Fr. Tim Moyle said to his posters on 14 April, 2010:
“I was sexually assaulted for a number of years when I was a child. It was not by a priest but by someone my father hired to help care for we kids when my mother was undergoing cancer treatments. I was told that if I ever ‘squealed’ about what happened to me that it would ‘break my mother’s heart’ and she would die hating me. Fun pile of shit to load on the shoulders of a 4-5 year old kid. It was only in the past year that I ever told anyone about what happened to me… meaning I carried that load for over 45 years before I was able to break the silence….”
This can be still found at his blog site the last hour I checked it. It is the 5th post in #2:
http://frtimmoyle.blogspot.com/2010/04/frustratingly-poor-quality-of-press.html#comments
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Tim…I hope this poor man is getting some kind of help? Maybe this would explain a lot?
Lina
I certainly am not qualified to answer those 2 questions Lina. Tim
Tim, I respect your answer.
This is the thread that got me wondering about Fr. Tim Moyle & Lady Janus. It may be very innocent but something is off or is it me that is being paranoid? I will drop this subject matter after your reply!
It is under this heading and in the comments #2 and # 3 at Father’s blog site.
28 August, 2010
The genetic mystique of ‘me’ medicine – The Globe and Mail
Posted by Fr. Tim Moyle at 8:01 AM
http://frtimmoyle.blogspot.com/2010/08/genetic-mystique-of-me-medicine-globe.html#comments
——————————————————–
Lina
Tim, Cheryl and Lina
This is all a bit bizarre.
I didn’t know that Father Tim was sexually abused when he was a little boy. I will keep him in my prayers.
Re the Lady Janus image, I haven’t a clue what the lines etc represent. The coathanger I assume must be the logo for abortion on demand (ie., no coathanger abortions) – as a self-professed witch and whatever else she professes to be Lady Janus would almost certainly be an advocate of abortion on demand.
As for Father Tim offering to take Lady Janus out for dinner, I personally think that is inappropriate. Many would have no problem with it. I think it is inappropriate.
Bottom line, I don’t see that this does anything to prove or disprove that Father Tim may have been responsible for the PPJTI letter. You may be right Tim, but, as I have said before, I really don’t think so. If it was Father Tim, I have been well and royally duped 🙂
Let’s leave this to rest now. I don’t think there is anything to be gained by carrying on. And let’s keep Father Tim in our prayers.
One final thought. Whether PPJTI is Father Tim or not the allegations in the letter still stand.
Sylvia
After that exchange between Fr.Tim Moyle & Lady Janus about dinner I decided later on it was best for me not to post there after that.
Fr. Tim does pray for all, prays for me and did help me tremendously.
That what hurts me inside. It’s like I am being disloyal to this man. Nevertheless, I am getting bad vibes and I believe I need to follow my conscience on this one. I will keep them all in prayer.
You are correct Sylvia when you said:
“Let’s leave this to rest now. I don’t think there is anything to be gained by carrying on. And let’s keep Father Tim in our prayers.”
Sincerely,
Lina
“Sylvia Says:
One final thought. Whether PPJTI is Father Tim or not the allegations in the letter still stand.”
I am glad Sylvia you still stated that the allegations in the letter still stands.
This is my opinion…whoever wrote that letter it may be a person or persons crying out for help? They may not want you Sylvia to give up on asking questions and to keep on trying to find out more facts about these former Pembroke Bishops?
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My final thoughts As for the Pembroke Priest for Justice, Truth & Integrity (PPJTI)
Here is an interesting article from Ireland:
Is this a similar plan these priests of the ‘Pembroke Priests for Justice, Truth and Integrity,’ want and are heading for eventually if they ever decide to re-surface? (PPJTI)
The Irish Times – Monday, September 6, 2010
PATSY McGARRY Religious Affairs Correspondent
SOME OF Ireland’s best-known priests have put their names to a “first statement” paving the way for a proposed new Association of Catholic Priests (ACP).
“providing a voice for Irish Catholic priests at a time when that voice is largely silent and needs to be expressed”.
Statement outlines aim of priests’ association.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0906/1224278287601.html
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I found the article very interesting to me anyway.
Thanks Sylvia,
Have a great week!
Lina
Sylvia: Re; your post #19. I certainly agree there is nothing further to be gained by carrying this on. I am shaken by what has been revealed, and I regret very much if some have been Faith-challenged over the exposures. We are all weak, and we ALL need prayers ! GOD Bless ! Tim
I’ll raise a big tall frothy glass of Guinness anyday, yes, and even everyday, to the Irish clergy who are attempting to set up the Association for Catholic Priests. I only hope and pray that the broadness of their mandate does not prove overwhelming.
It is encouraging indeed to see that while they are interested in “providing a voice for Irish Catholic priests…” they are doing so seeking “full implementation of the vision of the Second Vatican Council” and that this would be done “with special emphasis on the primacy of individual conscience,the status and active participation of all the baptised…”.
It is laudable that, as they seek a voice for themselves, they also seek to give a voice to all the rest of us baptised mortals rather than just be concerned only with their particular interests. Now that’s what I call shepherding the flock!! This is so necessary if there is to be “restructuring of governance in the church” where service has primacy over power.
Hi Sylvia, I have been away for a few weeks and have just caught up again on your site, as you may recall I am one of the two people left with charges against Borne. This PPJTI sounds like a complete hoax to me, where did you get this information? The thing that strucks me the most is a line in this message that states Borne trial starts in the Fall anyone who knows anything about this matter knows there is a pretrial September 14 that only involves the judge, crown and defense which is only about how the trial is to proceed and the trial is tentatively set for January, February of the new year. As per any priests in Pembroke that know Borne’s activities yes they have been detailed in trial affadavits and will have been spoken to by the OPP and if they had anything to say will have said it then which if they have will come out at trial, if you need validation on what I have said and I have said before I have no problem showing you my affadavit and shortly I will have the transcripts of my cross held in June, simply email me at the email address attached and I will redirect you to another email and we can communicate from there as per this Father Tim I have never heard of him but am intrigued that he is in Mattawa the place Borne started in before his transfer to secretary of Bishop Windle
Good luck to you Snowdog!
Lina
Lina (post #22) I don’t think the PPJTI is on the same wave length as the Irish Association of Catholic Priests. I get the impression that PPJTI’s concerns relate exclusively to real or perceived cover-up of sexual abuse by bishops, specifically as it relates to Monsignor Robert Borne.
As for the Irish priests,’ I could be mistaken but reading between the lines I think this is a group of dissident priests who plan to use their collective voice to challenge, amongst other things, Church teaching on abortion, homosexuality and women’s ordination. I don’t believe that is a good, nor do I think for a moment it will purge the Church of clerical sexual predators.
Snowdog,
I received the PPJTI letter and cover email by e-mail – I was copied along with others. I had brief contact via the originating email address, and then – bounced emails!
I wouldn’t take the reference to trial as proof positive of a hoax. I have discovered that laymen are routinely unfamiliar with legal jargon – many think a court appearance means a trial. Once upon a time I was in those ranks. I didn’t have a clue. After years of following cases through to trial I have a much better understanding of the process and am more familiar with language, but even at that I am still often in the dark. I totally understand how someone who is not a member of the judiciary or legal profession could be confused and think Borne must be going to trial in the Fall.
Sylvia said: “(post #27) I don’t think the PPJTI is on the same wave length as the Irish Association of Catholic Priests. I get the impression that PPJTI’s concerns relate exclusively to real or perceived cover-up of sexual abuse by bishops, specifically as it relates to Monsignor Robert Borne.”
They (the PPJTI’s) letter does want to zero in on those two former bishops from the Pembroke Diocese that they knew something about that Monsignor’s Borne ways.
Real or perceived cover-up? It still cannot be ignored because it would not be that unusual knowing the track record the Church’s has in how they dealt with problem clergy. Nevertheless, proof is needed and that is where it gets tough. To be able to prove it.
As for that Irish article you are correct, it will not purge the Church of clerical sexual predators. Ireland has been hit hard with this clergy abuse stuff.
Thanks Sylvia,
Lina
You’re right Lina. But until there is proof it is an allegation and no more. I used the word “perceived” because without proof I am in no position to say cover-up.
Actually that is poor grammar on part in #27 – it should read “real or perceived cover-up by bishops of clerical sexual abuse.”
No problem Sylvia. The main thing here I do get what you were saying.
Lina
Sylvia,thanks for enlightening me in your comments to Lina regarding what you read between the lines of the Irish Times article on the Association of Catholic Priests plans. I guess I need to brush up on the skill of reading between the lines! Thanks.
“Me again, Sylvia. On the Lady Janus blog link you gave, I am terribly naive. What in the world does her ‘photo’ purport to represent?”
Gee, here’s a thought: why doesn’t somebody ask The Witch, herself?
And does somebody want to explain why it’s “inappropriate” for two people who are religious leaders in their respective communities to have dinner together? Does anyone here know the definition of the term, “ecumenical?”
Lady Janus,
I’m the one who brought that link thread here from Father’s Moyle’s site. I am truly sorry Lady Janus.
I for one and the others have dropped the matter and kept everybody in prayer.
I agreed with Sylvia, to leave this to rest. I don’t think there is anything to be gained by carrying on.
Again, Lady Janus I regret I brought that thread to light here and I did this to both of you.
Sincerely,
Lina
Lina, you haven’t “done” anything to me, so you don’t need to apologize to me. I am a little disappointed that you didn’t feel you could ask me directly, though. I thought you understood that if you don’t know the answer, there is no such thing as a dumb question.
“Lady Janus Says:
September 8th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Lina, you haven’t “done” anything to me, so you don’t need to apologize to me. I am a little disappointed that you didn’t feel you could ask me directly, though. I thought you understood that if you don’t know the answer, there is no such thing as a dumb question.”
I handled that situation badly, I over reacted and I know it.
I got concern for Fr. Tim because he admitted to all the posters on his blog that he was sexually assaulted many years ago and it was only in the past year that he ever told anyone about what happened to him. Furthermore, Fr. Tim carried that load for over 45 years before he was able to break the silence this past year about it. My imagination went in overdrive and I thought he was going to fall in temptation with you because I did not know if he got some professional help.
I know it is NONE of MY business.
I just handled it all wrong. I do regret it sincerely.
I will not post at Father’s blog again. This will not happened again. Anyway, I am cutting back on posting and using the internet.
Lina
UH OH……..;)
Lina, whatever bothers you about Father Tim probably ought to be discussed directly with him, don’t you think? I think he might prefer to address any of your concerns himself. He’s perfectly capable, and I think you just might be surprised, should you decide to speak to him directly.
As for anyone’s “falling into temptation” with me…lol…I actually think I’d have something to say about it, don’t you?
Lady Janus,
Thank you for your input Lady Janus.
I am finish talking to priests outside or inside the confessional about any scandals pertaining in my area, the Pembroke Diocese period.
Secondly, I do not want to talk Father Tim Moyle about this. You and he can discuss it all you want that is your business.
I rather let this matter go, forget about it, and go on with my life.
I already stated what I had to say in my previous posts. I’m starting to sound like a recording.
This discussion is over. No hard feelings Lady Janus.
Good Night!
Lina
Re post #39. Lina, stick with that decision. Tim
“Tim Says:
September 8th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Re post #39. Lina, stick with that decision.”
Thank you Tim.
Lina
O.K. We are totally derailed here. This no longer has anything to do with clerical sexual predators. I am going to close off the thread.
Lina, no self-recriminations, O.K?
And, with that, the issue and thread is closed 🙂