DIALOGUE

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CLICK for DIALOGUE comments from February 2011 to 15 February 2012

(15 February 2012) This is a continuation of the Dialogue page started 15 February 2011).  It was opened as an experiment.  The idea was to provide an easy to access  forum for the expression and exchange of thoughts and observations which are not relevant to the threads on the Accused page (priests charged, sued or accused).

Please continue to post information regarding a particular priest on the relevant page on the Accused list.  In those cases where a page has not yet been created, feel free to ask questions, make comment or post relevant information here.  That aside, this can  become the forum for all other comment.

It seems to have worked.  A chance to exchange opinions.  A chance to dialogue.

Sylvia

233 Responses to DIALOGUE

  1. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    Lina;
    Like PJ and jj have said, no apology is necessary! As has already been said, there is strength in all of us bonding with a common bond. Sometimes things will be said in the heat of the moment, but it’s not personal.
    I am so sorry that this priest (I call him “that man”) has had such an impact on your life. Please try to let him go! Don’t let his disordered and deviant life continue to control you! Rise above it!
    My hope is that someday we will all meet together, and what a happy and emotional day that would be. Mike.

    • Lina says:

      Mike,

      I appreciate the info you shared with us about this certain priest.

      Let just say, there is no need for me to ever have a picture of him again…ever.

      Has for coming across certain victims, I will follower your good common sense advice.

      I will wait until I get ALL the information in place then proceed from there.
      Knowing and getting bits and pieces here and there is so counter-productive.
      I see clearly now where I went wrong, thanks to PJ and jj’s input.

      Mike, you have given me so much food for thought about this priest’s that I will need to take some time out and meditate and reflect on so much stuff.

      I’m going through so many different emotions, for one thing so many memories of the past are visiting and flooding back to me. It’s all overwhelming and yet exciting.

      I do admit, ‘I cannot change what happened in the past’. Nevertheless, from this day on I have a new outlook on life.

      This is something no amount of money can buy, for this Mike a BIG thank-you!

      Lina

  2. PJ says:

    Are we ready to expand our fight against these collars by starting a Facebook page? Or would that church up the anty and try to close it down? By using Facebook and a moderator able to keep the comments from “crossing the line” legally or otherwise, the magnitude of the abuse by that church would then be exposed to the world. I am just asking for feedback on whether or not this would be something we survivors and Sylvia would want to do.

    • Baspuit says:

      I have, mind you, lots of French articles = http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/295743154041/
      Innocentes Victimes d’Abus Sexuels

    • jj says:

      PJ,

      I think a Facebook page would be a good idea, except that the option to remain anonymous would be lost to anyone posting comments, or even clicking on a “like” button…

      I’m a member of a “secret Facebook group” (membership is by invitation only, and closed to everyone outside these members), where we can discuss, share, plan, strategize, and let off steam in a secure, non-threatening environment. Because access is strictly controlled, there is NO WAY that any unwanted outsiders can even “creep” into the room.

      This would defeat the purpose of “going public” with a Facebook page… I think anyone who has told their story in public may be OK with commenting on such a page – otherwise, there would only be visitors to the site… A Facebook page would most likely duplicate what Sylvia is already doing here, with the Internet presence and the moderation.

      jj

      • P J says:

        I think you’re right. This website does everything we want it to do thanks to Sylvia. FB can be a real pain in the ass anyway. Good feedback.

    • ( Annonymous) says:

      Confidential -just do it the more publicity may just arouse those brain dead parishioners filling up the pews to wake up and realize this is a world wide epidemic festering because of protected priests

  3. Lina says:

    I’ve unknowingly been part of a well orchestrated process by clever clerics in my lifetime. To some degree it was to support ‘their code of silence’. I believed it was all for the good of progression of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, the One and Only True Church.

    These men of God accomplished this in ways such as sharing some personal information with me. To add more in-depth details would be sour grapes to everyone except for me.

    I was what you would call a cradle Catholic. In my childlike faith way, I did practice my Catholic faith the best way I knew how. I’m a sinner saved by the grace of God.

    When priests are ordained, the Church teaches that these men are joined to Christ in such a very mysterious and miraculous way, that they are obviously different from other men.

    Being innocent and naive I trusted these priests. They led me to think I was privileged to be somewhat near as close as a layperson can be to their all-male priesthood.

    I was use to listen and do what the Catholic Church’s teachings said, even-though my conscience, that infused voice of thoughts, nudged and urged me to be cautious and not to be fearful to questioned what was happening in and about the Catholic Church. To take further steps to educate myself and to learn more earnestly on different topic matters.

    Then a little at a time, my Catholic religious life started to seep and unraveled.

    I’ve lived through so many obstacles that was put in my way. I’ve experience a variety of emotions, the ups and downs of the good and the bad stuff related to priests and the Catholic Church.

    True, many times I didn’t know any better. After learning and accumulating knowledge over long period of time, an honest and serious transformation took place.

    I’m not the same person I was years ago. My path is different.

    Will I ever visit a Catholic Church again? To answer that question: YES, it would be like one would visit an old friend. After all, this friend was part of ALL my childhood years and a very LARGE part of my adult life.

    Everything has changed, except God’s unconditional love for me.

    Don’t get me wrong, I wish all the clergy/priests well and definitely no harm.

    Over fifty plus years of Catholicism gone, it’s a rough way to describe this reality.

    I’m well aware of the imprint by my Catholic upbringing will remain with me until my earthly demise.

    I’m not perfect but I’m good.

    Thank-you,

    Lina

    • M says:

      I sort of went through the same thing, Lina. Then one day you realize that they weren’t your friends after all. I am still Catholic because I believe in The Divine Presence, but I wonder more and more about how a church I gave so much of my life,talents,respect,money,love,devotion, to could kick me so hard. And the further down I was, the harder they kicked.

      • M says:

        Of course, by ‘church” in the above I meant priests, as well as some “important” parishoners they blabbed to.

  4. Jennifer says:

    This posting is just to inform former students of the college that a classmate of yours, a comrade in sports, academics, and many other extra-curricular activities is deceased.

    Mark E.Whalen OCT
    born in Sudbury: August 1957
    died Newmarket: Jan. 11, 2013

    Death by suicide: GOTrain
    WE ALL KNOW WHY. How many does it take?

  5. Leona says:

    I just came across this link and thought it was absolutley bizarre. I’m trying to figure why the Government of Canada would have a special page on Catholic Church sexual abuse. http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/res/cor/sum/cprs200405_1-eng.aspx

    Thoughts?????

  6. John says:

    Leona….I just e-mailed Karl Hanson, the author of the page (report) to ask him why this page is on a Government of Canada website re:public safety. Mr. Hanson is out of office until Feb. 4th. I will await his reply.

    John MacDonald

    • John says:

      Leona, and anyone else that may be wondering…..This is the reply that I recieved from Karl Hanson re: The reasoning behind having the page on the Government of Canada Public Safety webpage.

      By his reply I am quite certain that I (at least) will have many more questions for Karl Hanson.

      “John MacDonald,

      Public Safety Canada has a mandate to provide information to the public on issues concerning crime and the risk of personal victimization.

      The research summary noted below was the result of work that was completed by researchers at Public Safety Canada on the topic of sexual abuse by clergy, specifically those in the Catholic Church.

      It was presented on the website in order that the public may have access to information on this topic.

      Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

      Karl Hanson”

      John MacDonald

      • M says:

        Why else, but to be perfectly honest, abuse happens in all clergy, not just Catholic, so I think it’s unfair for the governemnt to target Catholics as a group of abusers. I myself am a single, never married, heterosexual,celibate, who works with children. Should I be suspect? Makes me very uncomfortable.

  7. Leona says:

    Thanks, John! Do you not think that if the government has clergy sexual abuse on their radar as a public safety issue, that they should be more actively involved in prosecuting those who protect the offenders??

  8. John says:

    Leona I could not agree more!!!! THAT has been my fight for the last 7 years.
    You asked for any thoughts at the end of your post. One thing that I have learned is that OUR thoughts mean very little to them, but THEIR thoughts mean plenty to US!!!

    John MacDonald

  9. John says:

    PLUS…….I would be very happy with them prosecuting the offenders.

    John MacDonald

  10. Leona says:

    This is a powerful article on the release of the L.A. Files. http://nationalsurvivoradvocatescoalition.wordpress.com/editorials/

    Just where ate the so called ‘good priests’!

    • Survive&Thrivr says:

      What would it take for the large Canadian Catholic Archdiocese – Vancouver, for example – to have to reveal its files as LA has done? Don’t Canadian Catholics have the right to know?
      Is the Government of Canada considering making transparency about criminal acts a requirement in exchange for the traditional tax breaks for church lands, revenue, and clergy housing? Anyone have an legal/legislative info about this possibility?
      Such a move would be a gesture of excellent international leadership on the part of Canada and help put an end to the secrecy and privileges which this international crisis has revealed.

    • M says:

      I am sure there are many, and it must be very difficult for them to be tarred with the same brush. I am finding younger priests now are not willing to work as hard though. Some turn off the ringer after 5 o’clock. Doesn’t our church still have sacraments like extreme unction tho? Better have your accident before 5!! I know, I know, that’s not what this site is about. Just sayin’

      • Darlene says:

        M:
        I know what you mean. When my father died suddenly of a heart attack a few years ago, the Catholic priest wouldn’t even come over to give the Last Rites (Extreme Unction). Apparently, they no longer do that AFTER the person has died. So I asked a friend of mine, who happens to be an Anglican priest, and he performed the Last Rites for my father at the funeral home. He couldn’t believe it either. No wonder I’m not a practicng Catholic anymore.

  11. Leona says:

    It was a long fought battle by victims to have the files released in L.A., and the church appears to be still holding back what it is legally obligated to release. Based on cross references with files already released in civil suits, there are redactions that shouldn’t be redacted, and missing items from files. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/us/los-angeles-archdiocese-is-accused-of-failing-to-release-all-priest-abuse-records.html?_r=0
    Joelle Casteix The Worthy Adversary, has a VLOG, showing two specific cases where information has been omitted.

    I don’t know what it would take Survive&Thrive, but I’m willing to put my efforts behind whatever plan we come up with.

    Should we be planning a conference/meeting for all Canadian Survivors. I’ll head up the committee if anyone else is interested?

    Thoughts!!!!

  12. Sylvia says:

    If you look through the history of disclosure of documents in the States you will find that it was a legal battle – part of ‘settlements’ which, as part of the settlement, compelled a particular diocese to disclose. I hate to pour water but assure all that the bishops in Canada will never disclose simply because victims ask or even demand they do so. Look at what’s happening in New Brunswick. Look at the settlement in the Antigonish Diocese. The dioceses refuse to disclose the names of molesters never mind the documents.

    What might be a huge step toward transparency in Canada is victims demanding public disclosure of all files related to their abuse as part of settlement? That would be a start, but it would hinge on agreement by lawyers to fight that battle on behalf of the victim.

    Another thing would be if victims refuse to be gagged by the diocese or religious order when they settle. That would also require lawyers to fight against the inclusion of gag orders.

    Think legally. As much as we should be able to look at this from a moral perspective and assume our bishops will do the right thing for moral reasons, it’s all legal shenanigans. Honest to goodness, I do believe that the Church is run by lawyers.

    How to deal with that?

  13. Gerard says:

    At the age of seventeen I had been on my high school football team, was president of the student council, and had my Grade 7 Royal Conservatory Piano. I came from a loving large family. I was happy, healthy, and had lots of friends. Then I decided to become a Basilian Father.
    I entered Erindale Novitiate in the summer of ’64. My Master of Novices was Fr. Lococo. My spiritual advisors were Father Ted Maclean and Father Rudy Diemer. We were told by Fr. Lococo daily that everything he said was “eternal truth”. We were only allowed to speak for thirty minutes daily after supper. We were preparing to take the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. Two years later I was in a psych ward, suffering from a “nervous breakdown”. It was six years before I was normal again.
    I was doing fine. Then I was abused by a Teacher’s College Professor in Peterborough. He stalked me every day. Then a parish priest also accosted me in a country club shower in Peterborough. I ended up in Westwood Ontario Hospital, then the infamous Rockwood for two years. I finally got out at the age of 26, married a teacher and became a teacher myself for thirty years. We had three beautiful children, and they are teachers. I am happily retired, and it breaks my heart to read these pages. But I survived, and I still have my faith. Peace Be With You.

    • Sylvia says:

      Thank you for sharing what without doubt are painful memories for you Gerard.

      Did you ever hear of or have any dealing with any of the Basilians listed on Sylvia’s Site? I am also curious about the priest who accosted you in a country club shower – was he to your knowledge ever reported to either the diocese and/or police by anyone? I gather he was incardinated in the Diocese of Peterborough?

  14. Lina says:

    Sylvia,

    I feel so much for all the clergy abuse victims and for all those folks who were betrayed by the Catholic Church, I included myself in this.

    This is no laughing matter or joke that:

    “The next Pope should be someone who didn’t help cover up the crimes of molestation, rape of children and vulnerable youth.
    Obviously…this should disqualify every single cardinal.”

    I’m just saying.

    Thank you Sylvia for this site and all you do to help victims and their supporters.

    Lina

  15. Mike Mc says:

    “The next Pope should be someone who didn’t help cover up the crimes of molestation, rape of children and vulnerable youth.
    Obviously…this should disqualify every single cardinal.”

    Interesting quote. Probably much truth to this.

    We’ll wait and see,… unfortunately.

    To Gerard above….I’m sure you could write a book. I hope the Basilian Fathers read it! I sure hope they read what you say here!
    Peace and courage to you.!

  16. PJ says:

    JG: Your comments made to Sylvia, “We don’t need to agree or disagree. Your opinion doesn’t matter to me or to anyone else. Just go back in the kitchen where you belong with the rest of your kind. Who gave you permission to interrupt????” are TOTALLY inappropriate and offensive. Her opinion matters to a lot of us so don’t include me in your rant. You should be ashamed of yourself. Time to “man-up” and apologize not only to Sylvia, but to the others that you referred to as “your kind”…I think I know who you mean by that and it’s disgusting. WOW, you really blew it this time.

  17. JG says:

    PJ,
    Please read what comes before that statement…Secondly do you really think that I have turned that stupid all of a sudden? I was simply trying to make a point concerning woman needing to take their just place…and I said “kitchen” to repeat what my mother, her mother and other women have been told for centuries.
    I said this with a smirk on my face because I probably spend more time in the kitchen in a week than Sylvia spends in a month.
    I hope she knows what I said is absolutely the contrary to the way I think.
    Make an effort to understand the context along with the rest of the conversation.
    While the subject is still at hand….I would also like Sylvia and anyone else who cares that I never have professed that women should be ordained. I don”t know what will become but I like to keep an open mind about everything…I too frankly am tired of the subject coming back as an obsession because I believe that Greater than any of us has a plan and I like to take the time to meditate, pray and listen…and challenge. If you read back, that is why I mentionned I was not taking sides…
    PJ, you have read my “rants” before…maybe you never took the time to read in between the lines! It is too easy to simply repeat the alphabet continuously.
    Life is not easy and understanding it should not be served on a silver platter. The journey is what makes it worth while inside and out.
    PJ, no offence intended and none taken. Don’t feel bad! My wife of 40 years still has difficulty understanding me at times.
    If this all too much, I can keep my thoughts and my “journey” to myself and not share any more. Maybe it is time.
    jg

    • Sylvia says:

      You had me fooled JG! I read and re-read your comments. I have often seen sarcasm and humour can fall flat in a blog so was looking for that. I missed it JG. I was totally confused – thought I had said something which prompted you to erupt at the keyboard 🙂 It made no sense to me at all. None. We know each other quite well now – I couldn’t relate what you were saying to the JG I have come to know, BUT…. this site deals with a topic which causes passions to run high. Who am I to conclude that you would never get angry with me?

      I realized too after the fact and in trying to put things into context that when I told Mike Mac to go back to the cove that could be misconstrued as rude. I meant it as a bit of a joke, and, like you JG, wrote it with a smile on my face. I generally try to put a happy face in those cases to ensure that people know I’m joking, but, I didn’t :(. So, to Mike Mac, that comment was a meant as a teeny touch of humour.

      PJ, thank you for your comments and bringing clarity to this.

      Don’t run JG. Keep sharing. We are all learning with and from each other how to keep the blog going.

    • PJ says:

      JG: I think sharing is good and being allowed to express ourselves freely on this website is divine. However, you may have been saying those words with a smirk on your face but none of us can see that smirk? The written words are plain, black and white with no pictures…now if we were in a room and you said that, I’m sure we would all have known you were joking. But we aren’t. Putting those little faces in a sentence would have helped for sure. Meanwhile, I take no offense as I understand what you were trying to say now. I still enjoy your input and frankly, that piece I took offense to was so not like you that I was really surprised. At least we are mature enough to talk it out and move on…stay with us, we need each other.

  18. JG says:

    Dear, Dear Sylvia,
    I thought of putting up a 🙂 but it felt cheesy because I thought for sure you would understand my “reverse psychology”…
    …and if others didn’t, well we’d get into a good conversation!
    If you remember anything of this “misunderstanding” remember that rude, ignorant, offensive, hurtful is never my intent and should never be present on this site or in Life… I forget where I mentioned that before but “JG is not that thin skinned”…I would give up an arm and a leg before I hurt anyone, in any way. My conscience wouldn’t be able to fight off the infection!
    I think if we are to support each other and especially newcomers to Sylvia’s site we have to remain vigilant to what is said and what is meant. Many victims and people who are hurting needlessly should find comfort in our midst.
    Thanks PJ. Your heart is in the right place.
    jg

  19. Mike Mc says:

    Sylvia, please allow me to share the fact that in the last 24 hrs you and I have written emails (2 from me). Of course I take no offense about the Cove. It is a beautiful place to be on this island of Newfoundland. You can’t get better that this. Well, okay, some of those warm beaches on those tropical islands look pretty darn good right now.
    With reference to JG, I never took his “kitchen” thought seriously. Sometimes Sylvia,…and I hate to say it this way……but you think like a woman of the past. Like there is no future for women in the priesthood in the RC Church because of some rule or “truth” as you call it that cannot be changed. I mean really, is the Anglican Church really that far off the “truth”. Men and women should be seen as equal in the eyes of God. Yes Mary was Mary and Jesus was Jesus. Female and male God made us!
    But to say that somehow a church document or “truth” cannot be redirected in this year of 2013 to 2035 for example, is nonsense. God is love. That’s all that really counts.
    But since this site is indeed for the sex abuse scandas and the betrayal of trust within the Catholic church, I will indeed abide by your concern not to mention the priesthood again and women’s roles in it. It’s obvious you’ll probably never agree to this. But I feel bad about this because since you are a woman, in this case you are not even giving women a chance at the priesthood. That’s a thinking of the past. Be open to change when the change is for the better. I hope the next Pope not only renews but invigorates the Church.

  20. Lina says:

    I had an interesting conversation with a St. Joseph Sister weeks ago in Pembroke. She been a sister for many, many decades. A wonderful woman.

    From her experiences she notice that most priests who came from St. Paul’s seminary acted differently than the ones from St. Peter’s seminary. The priests from St. Paul were more down to earth, easy to talk to than most priests from St. Peter’s seminary.

    The majority of men that came from St. Peter’s seminary came across that they were more entitled than others.

    This sister told me that years ago the Bishop would tell the nuns when he wanted access to their swimming pool. This sister found out many times that the Bishop was away. This left this sister and others not able to have access to the pool.

    One day she realize the Bishop reserve the pool for three weeks but she found out he was away on vacation.

    So she contacted the Bishop’s secretary and ask out of courtesy if she would let her know when the Bishop was away so she and the other sisters could use the pool.

    Instead of this bishop realizing that he was not being fair to reserve the pool for long periods of time with no intention of being there. Why not just let the sisters know out of plain courtesy. All it took a quick phone call by his secretary.

    The bishop chooses to discipline this sister.

    That poor sister got the third degree by the bishop. He told her how dare she interfere with his instructions and even have the nerve go as far and even talk to his secretary.

    This is what the sister meant about the majority of the clergy coming from St. Peter’s seminary. They feel they are entitled and are worthy more because they are the chosen ones.

    The sister said….’it’s a man’s world’.

    I said….’especially in the Roman Catholic Church sister’.

  21. Leona says:

    Just spent the day with Dan Siegel. Dan is an expert in the field of interpersonal neurobiology. He is working with our school district andspoke to an audience of 1600 teachers today. He explained how we now know that traumas experienced by our parents and grandparents are passed down epigenetically while they don’t directly change it they are they are fused to our DNA. Thus as much as I’d like to think that the spiritual terrorism I suffered didn’t affect my children, it’s chemically altered their brains. Gotta love it!

    • PJ says:

      Hmmmmmm. Will this be something like Dr Spock’s advice to have babies sleep on their tummies, only to have that overturned in the 1990s? I’m not convinced that past generations’ traumas really are passed on genetically.

      • M says:

        I am a teahcer too, and I don’t necessarily believe everything our high priced speakers say. Today’s knowledge is tomorrow’s research. I do believe that any trauma a parent has experienced is going to cause some sort of (emotinal/pyhsica climate)environmental damage to future generations -has to. Can’t see how it could be any other way.

        • M says:

          Actually, Im a teacher lol, but not a typing teacher.

        • PJ says:

          The trauma might affect the way a parent behaves with their children and this behaviour could POSSIBLY affect the next generation, but to say it becomes a genetic alteration is really hard to accept. Look at concentration camp survivors’ offspring and their children…has this altered them genetically? Doubt it. Behaviourally perhaps but minimally I would guess.

          • M says:

            I don’t believe the trauma with alter genetics, but I don’t see how families could go unaffected emotionally. Being affected emotionally can mean being affected in many other ways, such as financially, addictions, and so on. I definitely believe priests cause generational wounds when they molest, not just wounding the person they physically molested.

  22. Leona says:

    The science is certainly there in the relatively new field of epigenisis. It is the control mechanisms that sit on the DNA that that determine where and when a certain gene gets activated. The groundbreaking work in this field came out of McGill.

  23. JG says:

    Thanks Leona.
    Have just read on “behavioral epigenetics” on Wiki. Very interesting but certainly not absolutely clear for my little brain. There is always room for learning. I have the following copied from Wiki to help some appetites:

    “The first documented example of epigenetics affecting behavior was provided by Meaney and Szyf. While working at McGill University in Montréal in 2004, they discovered that the type of mothering a rat receives in infancy determines how that rat responds to stress later in life. Rat pups that receive a less nurturing upbringing are more sensitive to stress throughout their life-span. This stress sensitivity is linked to a down-regulation in the expression of the glucocorticoid receptor in the brain. In turn, this down-regulation was found to be a consequence of the extent of methylation in the promoter region of the glucocorticoid receptor gene.[1][6] This pioneering work in rodents has been hard to replicate in humans because of a general lack of human brain tissue for measurement of epigenetic changes.[1] The first study that has directly linked epigenetic changes in human brain tissue to behavior involved post-mortem brains of people who committed suicide, half of whom had been abused as children. Those who had been abused had a lower expression of glucocorticoid receptor due to increased methylation in the promoter region of the glucocorticoid receptor gene. These observations in humans closely parallel the earlier rat studies.”[1][7]
    There is probably “hours”of reading for someone who is so inclined. Subjects like this always remind me that the earth was once considered “flat”…and that the “church” still hasn’t corrected that misconception. JPII in 1982 simply apologized to Galileo, if my memory serves me well, but never admitted they were wrong. The “church” will still allow you to believe either way: round or flat!!!…
    Oh! How far we have come!…

    jg

  24. Bandoson says:

    I am not a victim of childhood sexual abuse.
    I came upon Sylvia’s Site after “googling” hod marshall’s name when his charges first came to light. I was a student at St Charles College in the 60s when hod taught there. Many of my friends and I have talked about those years and how our observations were not off their mark, just not fully understood. We thought that he was what could best be described by teenage boys as “weird”..it now very obvious that he was evil not “weird”.
    This Site has given me an insight into the great harm that a pedofile can cause not only to the victim but to their family, their friends and our society as a whole.
    That said, the subject at hand, “behavioral epigenetics”.
    A number of years ago my wife and I visited Hawaii. As well as the weather and the geography, what impressed me as much were the people, they were friendly, generous, and gracious. One day I had the opportunity to meet and speak with a native Hawaiin.During the course of the conversation I mentioned my observations, and made the comment “you people know how to treat your guests, you’re great with the tourists, and I respect your business sense”. He smiled said thank you, and then asked if I knew anything about their culture, I said no, my knowledge of Hawaii was very limited. He went on to explain the those “friendly faces” were the result of their cultural beliefs, not an advertizing campaign. He told me something that sticks with me to this day..”we are the result of the actions and reactions of seven generations before us, AND by our actions and reactions we will impact the lives of seven generations following us”
    In the catholic church, the evil abuse of children by “Men Of God” that has gone on for generations has finally come to light thanks to the courage of those who were abused, and the courage of people like Sylvia who have said..”No More”..by your actions and reactions you will change what has happened and what will happen in the future. The history of the church will change because of what you are doing and how you are fighting for truth, justice and dignity. Your courage will prevail. To those who have been abused, to their family and friends, stay the course … You have the ability to change the “behavioral epigenetics” of generations to come..God Is With You!

    • PJ says:

      What years were you at St Charles College? I was there in the late 60s.

    • JG says:

      Bandoson,
      Thanks for that piece of wisdom:

      “we are the result of the actions and reactions of seven generations before us, AND by our actions and reactions we will impact the lives of seven generations following us”

      Sometimes the seemingly very complicated is explained with very simple observations. I was not a victim of clergy abuse but my Father was. I would sound like a whiner and I would be told to “get over it” if I simply outlined the effects of “that” on our lives.
      I believe it is possible to break the cycle and minimize the effects. To accomplish that one has to be able to find a new “model” and to be accompanied, surrounded with Love. Eventually you regain the self-esteem and the Hope, the belief that you have not been abandoned…
      I believe normal evolution takes for ever but the shock of abuse, trauma in ones life can have long lasting effect. From every day confusion to probably genetic alteration eventually… Stress has such an effect on our lives to the point of making some very sick for no logical reason.
      The inside becomes a reflection of the outside or vice versa.
      Every little seed counts, in one column or the other.
      It is worth reminding ourselves about that until we can move to Hawaii!!

      jg

    • EMG says:

      Dear Brandoson, Thank you for your comments re: the Hawaiian culture. What a beautiful way to express the actions and reactions we all have to life. The effects of our behaviors clearly do effect generations to come. The sins of the father visited upon the sons is an attempt to explain the impact that behavior has on others…not only children but the friends of those children and so on. These admissions that I have read within these pages will impact the church forever. Such a sad legacy from a Church so loved.

  25. Leona says:

    I’ve really enjoyed ‘listening’ to this discussion. There are some very wise people who follow and comment on this site. I could really use some of that wisdom now as I navigate the rough waters of my mother’s palliative care journey. Her desire for a full catholic mass funeral has opened the box of most painful emotions. I can’t even contemplate what it would take for me to be able to enter a church right now. I’m trying to stay present in the moments I have with her while SO wanting to escape from my body and the well of stored memories and emotions. I know I could find ways to hide the pain, but I keep telling myself ‘the only way out is through’. At a time like this I really see the importance of a clergy abuse support group to ease the burden. So wishing there was one here on the West Coast.

  26. JG says:

    Leona,
    So sorry that your Mom will be leaving you but you shouldn’t be afraid…
    I enjoy Life because of very simple things and death has never scared me since I was a teenager… A “NDE” forever changes the perspective on our “Spiritual genetics”and journey…( to remain within your, above, original offering to all of us, “epigenetics” curiosity…)
    I have never mentioned that before except in very private conversations, at the bedside of people in their “palliative care journey”… This is my “gift” to you in this trying time:
    Your Mom is simply moving on to a beautiful “Presence” where she will never be alone …Not just a “place” …Have no doubt about that! …I remember it every day of my life and I try to “deserve” that gift of long ago, every day…
    When you go to church for your Mother’s last Good Bye, find “your” own way to say “Farewell”, “Thank You”, “I Love You”, …and maybe leave a bit of “your” hair on the alter or the collection plate. Give them back that part of your physical being, your past, that they soiled! Keep what is left and which you know and I know is “very good”, and deserves to be happy. Change the future!

    At my Father’s funeral I made it “through” by sitting down the entire service but praying to myself and remembering the Good in him. I walked in, I walked out! I have been to a non-denominational chapel but not in a catholic church since then…not until and unless there is some serious “house cleaning”…

    Let it be a time for your Mom, Yourself and Family.
    Do some house cleaning at home before,if that makes sense and after if it doesn’t! Either way you will feel better because you will understand their is a purpose to your Life, one simple step at a time.
    This is not just a random occurrence. There is a plan!
    You are Loved Leona. I will pray for you and your Mom along with others who visit this site and share the pain you will “leave” in that church…
    Take a deep breath.
    Live well.

    jg

  27. Leona says:

    Thanks, J.G. for your wise words. You reminded me of the need to make a plan for my own safety on that day. I love your idea I too am not afraid of death. My Mom’s journey is complicated by her dementia. The doctor has said she has months, not weeks with the cancer, but the unknown is how her mind willstart to slip away from this world.

    Yesterday I shared with her the song that came to me in a dream. It was so real and vivid that I had to ask my son if it was a song I’d heard on the radio. it had a deep strong world rhythm, earthy and funereal.

    As the mother, holds her daughter,
    As the father holds his child,
    all we are is dust and water,
    On and on, we carry on, we carry on

    We had a good hug, and tears shed, and she said I hope you will carry on, and then laughed and said of course you will, your the one staying here.

  28. JG says:

    Leona,

    Dementia can be a scary word but it is just a word. From the description of your Loving relationship I think that if you continue to be a good listener, it will be a Peaceful passage…I find with the elderly in your mother’s situation you have to listen and go with your “feelings” before your “understanding”…If that little voice says be quiet, you are right to be. Then when her speech or thoughts become jumbled, go right along with the moment… sometimes find a rhyme, a story or a song that makes you laugh for no apparent reason…
    I think those times are very rich and real if you take the time to be “present”…
    Enjoy this time with your Mother and don’t spare the hugs. Keep her laughing.
    jg

  29. JG says:

    They are really putting on a “show” right now! It feels like a Hollywood production but it is set in Rome. The media people are tripping over each other to come up with the most “admirable” description of the pope. One of them on the french media was interviewed(for a newspaper) prior to the resignation and he was insisting the church had lost the “moral authority” and was outlining the pope’s response without much adulation…Listening to a newscast yesterday his speech was now about his “spirituality!!!…Go figure how opinions are swayed by a resignation…something like the eulogies after a scoundrel passes away!…that is the next thing that will capture the media for ..a month or more.
    Let’s see: since he announced he was resigning, not much else has captured the world attention. So that was the last month. Now we are waiting for the next pope to be selected in time for Easter! The next month is pretty well “occupied” by all this attention. Then, well, the new pope! Another six months, a year maybe, of analysis, interviews, travels, “testimonies”, compliments and so many requests to move on, forget , forgive….Before we know it a year, two years will have gone by, they will have been too busy to think or take care of the “victims”…
    I am very skeptical that this is a half hazard. Well planned again to “run the clock”!
    When we finally begin to settle back into “normal” it will probably be time to prepare for “Benny’s” funeral…Another year, more water under the bridge, more memories fading, more victims will have passed on as well…
    They want to think and profess the “eternal” nature of the church and they’ll find new ways, to the extreme, to maintain that control by distracting us “forever”…
    In about “three and a half years” we may have gone through this charade…
    jg

  30. Lina says:

    An interesting program among many topics Fr. Thomas Doyle talks about Pope Benedict resigning.

    From:

    http://thelip.tv/priests-abuse-and-vatican-conspiracy-with-fr-thomas-doyle-and-abuse-survivor-helen-mcgonigle/

    Priests, Abuse and Vatican Conspiracy with Fr. Thomas Doyle and Abuse Survivor Helen McGonigle (Episode 86)

    EPISODE BREAKDOWN
    00:01 Coming Up on Media Mayhem.
    00:56 Welcoming Fr. Thomas Doyle.
    07:00 The scientific issue of repressed memories and abuse victims.
    11:40 Using canon law as a higher law than civil law.
    18:52 Is the Pope accountable?
    34:08 Welcoming Helen McGonigle.
    36:48 Rhode Island in the 60s and the Catholic Church and Fr. Brendan Smyth.
    47:44 Smyth gets shipped around the world.
    56:40 The scandal takes down the Irish government.

  31. JG says:

    ….Cardinal Ouellette is being interviewed right now by Peter Mansbridge! According to him it has been “0” tolerance in Canada since 1990… Evasive, not answering question, going around in circles…it is a human problem! according to him. Can’t even say “ABUSE”…
    Same old “script”. Not impressed the least, not the solution!

    jg

    • ( Annonymous) says:

      Just watched the canadian cardinal being interviewed by Peter Mansbridge ,what a big disappointment to hear him complain about the Media ,like we blame the media for reporting bad weather, if as he stated action was taken in the 1990’s ,how come we have so many outstanding cases ,and new ones being frequently reported across the country before our great Canadian judicial system.May be good for the victims and the church if these unholy monsters would stop trying to muzzle the press. Its a Sin to tell a lie(or is that o.k.now too)Do the crime- Do the time.Time for all the comatose catholics to wake up and read the Protocols that Cardinal Ouellete,so proudly speaks of and I feel sure that they are only another way to intimidate,and frieghten victims,and no intent or means to enforce in other words a poor attempt onle designed so insurers would provide more insurance to parishes.Annonymous

      • Baspuit says:

        Annonymous says; “Its a sin to tell a lie(or is that o.k.now too)” please look up the doctrine of “Mental reservation” and it will answer your question; “is that o.k. now too”, yes for over 600 hundred years, they have lied, cheated, stole, false witness, abused with this tongue twister! One of the reason that the abuses went on for so long in Dublin, please look it up!!

        • JG says:

          Along those sames lines, Baspuits, notice how Ouellet talks about these “facts” !!!Hughhh!?….Call a spade a spade: it’s an “ASSAULT”, a “RAPE”, “VIOLATION”…Not just a “FACT”!
          We are sure to hear of “attacks” on the church:”The poor oppressed church”! Just an old twist in a newer “make you feel guilty” defense which in more recent years has become the not so ambiguous :”If you are not with us you are against us!” from a variety of sources…
          Let no one fall for this re-directing of GUILT! from the “masters” of deceit…well dressed criminals!
          jg

  32. JG says:

    “Ouellet” was on immediately after on the french CBC, interviewed by Celine Galipeau. Same approach, uncomfortable and evasive as soon as sexual abuse in the church along with the Vatican various problems…Take off the fancy robe and he is another “politician” putting on the charm!!! …His final salute was to his “brothers” within the club…
    Nothing about the “children”…
    Less impressed, if that is possible.

    jg

  33. Larry Green says:

    @ JG
    “Take off the fancy robe and he is another “politician” putting on the charm!!!”
    I totally agree but I would add – not an especially brilliant one- But I suppose “brilliant” is relative. Maybe he will be perceived as the brightest or the holiest in the room. For those who do things in excess perceive moderation as deficient and vice versa.

  34. JG says:

    Hello Mr Green,
    I thought you might come back for “the pope”… 🙂
    Yes, he doesn’t impress me with his squint, his constant whisper, his eyes closed to avoid the scope and reality of their failure. I saw the same spectacle in another interview with his buddy, “Turcotte”, about a month ago. Whispering, sucking on every word, “you know”… “Miliota”(stuffing wads of money in his socks, mafia, ” Carbonneau” inquiry..you know!?..) had the same whispering, deceptive innocence in his presentation…Very believable!!!
    Another thing I know is that his dear 90 year old mother who he says is praying for him everyday is certainly not praying for the children abused, abandoned and betrayed by the church because he certainly didn’t spend a minute to explain what he took part in and continues to cover-up….
    But he puts on “The greatest Show on Earth!”, you know…
    He feigns modesty but is gloating with envy inside. He told Celine Galipeau not to expect anything “revolutionary” with a new pope… if anyone still cares.
    jg

  35. ( Annonymous) says:

    I think I will keep a close eye on Cardinal Jorge Urosa from Venezuela and bet on him for the next Pope, unless Canada has already” Bought ” Ouellet”when our Finance Minister Jim Flaherty accompanied Cardinal Collins to Rome , when Benny last summoned the boys to come home,a couple of months ago.Heaven forbid do lets hope That little guy that controls our pension funds and other taxpayers $’didn’t invest in the troubled Vatican bank. so credit cards could be used at the City of Sin once again.Time for us to be awake ,while history unfolds before our Eyes .

  36. Lina says:

    It was little over a year ago, during a homily a priest was talking about folks cutting back on their money they were giving to the church.

    He said long ago if a person miss mass for whatever reason they would make it up the next time they were at church. Meaning they would double the money in the church envelope. Today the priest said people don’t do that.

    He went on to say if you do not keep up with your donations certain charity and programs would be hurt.

    If this priest would had ended it there probably I would not have notice what really was his concern.

    He ended it buy saying it is all up to you about giving to your church, ‘anyhow my salary is the first that comes out from those donations’.

    Gee whiz….it’s nice to hear he gets a steady pay check. lol..lol..

  37. Leona says:

    Preparing myself to attend my mother’s funeral tomorrow morning. I haven’t been in a Catholic Church since my Dad’s funeral over12 years ago. I want to honour and respect my mother’s faith, but already the rules are coming hard and fast – no Old Testament readings – (it’s the week of Easter) – exceptions have been made for a eulogy, but we’ve been limited to 5 minutes…no meat of course at the reception (after all it’s Friday)…
    Send some positive energy my way please!!

  38. Brunelle Brenda says:

    Leona, I am thinking about you today and sending you lots of hugs. How courageous you are to honour your mother’s faith and celebrate her life and all that her life represented. I am certain that the limitations put on the funeral arrangements are limitations that your mother would want and would be proud to know you have honoured her in this very sacred way.

    Your struggle to do this has not gone unnoticed, we are with you today.

    Surround yourself with all the positive memories you have with your mom and your dad during this difficult time. You are not alone.

    Brenda

  39. Sylvia says:

    My very deepest sympathies Leona on the death of your mother. May she rest in peace.

    My thoughts and prayers will be with you and your family tomorrow morning.

  40. Leona;
    You and your family are facing a really terrible day full of challenges. I hope your Mum had a good and fulfilling life.
    Please try to think, as you enter the church, that God is with you today. Walking back into the church will be difficult for you after all these years and memories, but you won’t be walking alone. We are all with you in spirit, as well as He. With prayers and my love; Mike.

  41. Survive & Thrive says:

    Leona, you have been a wonderful support and example to many of us. Hoping you will know you are not alone. We are with you in spirit,

  42. Leona says:

    Thanks for all the kind and supportive words. I definitely felt that God was with me. I will post more about the experience later. I have much to say.

  43. Leona says:

    I am reposting this here, as it may be more appropriate on this page.

    I am in Dublin, Ireland for the first ever International Conference for Clergy abuse survivors conference. As exciting as it seems to be in Ireland, I need to acknowledge to myself that most people don’t spend their hard earned vacation money at sexual abuse survivor conferences!!
    I think about the journey that has brought me here, from feeling so alone a few years ago when I discovered Jack McCann was ministering in Ottawa… discovering Sylvia’s blog and realizing that these crimes were more pervasive than I ever wanted to acknowledge, and taking up an advocacy role where I could Channel my energy into helping victims heal (myself included) and keeping children safe.

    I have been asked to speak at the conference on the state of things in Canada. I would appreciate your support in filling me in on your thoughts. I feel that this site seems to be the driving force for awareness in Canada. Information from the media comes only in fits and spurts. Our justice system in inconsistent. Our church leaders feel they’re dealing with the problem, but as in the Bastarche case, continue to keep things as secretive as possible.
    Your thoughts would be very appreciated….
    Thanks so much.

  44. B says:

    Hi Leona,

    I agree completely with the issues you’ve identified. I’ve been following the Phil Jacobs trial, and was disturbed by, first, the high level of support by parishioners for their priest (which created a climate which criticized the victims and highlights the lack of public awareness around this issue). I was also distressed by the level of secrecy of the then-bishop and the committee who were supposed to keep Jacobs from being around young teens (they seemed to think that blaming each other and their poor memories was enough, and offered no apologies for hiring a known sexual predator–no doubt their lawyers told them they could not admit to anything, but it came off as deceptive, callous and un-Christian).

    I also thought the legal system didn’t seem to “get it”–the trial turned on how old the boys were when the abuse took place (which really should not matter, as the priest was still breaking his vows whether they were 14, 15 or 16) and whether the boys thought he was aroused at the time (of course, they had no way of knowing).

    Thanks for the good work you’re doing; I hope you will update us about the conference.

  45. JG says:

    Although “Christ” on the cross has been the symbol of Christian faith, I believe he did not die on that Cross!..
    He was dead long before his body was hung and bled, and passed… He died the moment Judas kissed him..died again as Peter turned his back and repeated ” I do not know Him”…
    When his ultimate Gift was thrown back, not understood, traded for a mere lifeless metal, he was dead in his Soul….”Why? …for I so Loved you!”…
    Broken, burning with the fever of “treason”…
    He explained “Love” with his life and was traded for a mere molten metal…
    We pretend to understand the “Cross”, the “Sacrifice”…and we fail to truly Love!
    He did not only die on the Cross! He did not only die by Judas or by Peter or by sword!…He died again when “the Church” turned its back on His children!
    The children of abuse died like he did, before any blood was visible.
    Christ and His children died and suffered from the agony of “treachery”…
    The pain was in his Soul before it tore his body.
    To all of you who suffer every day because of that “treason” of your “Soul” , remember that He lives through you…You are His Loved ones, his brothers, his sisters, his chosen…
    I think of you everyday and I weep for you everyday….
    All my Love and Courage.

    jg

  46. JG says:

    …you CAN rise again!

    jg

  47. Sylvia says:

    I mentioned that my webhost was working on technical issues with Sylvia’s Site. Well, a new wrinkle as he works at it. At the present time I am unable to access the administrative area of the site. That will eventually get fixed up, but right now – no luck 🙁

    And, today I was gone for the day. I am spending time with a friend in court and will be for a few days.

    When I got home this evening I was all set to blog on the news re Father Danny Miller and post a few articles. And here I am! Hopefully when I get home tomorrow evening this particular computer gremlin will be all sorted out.

    Before all of this I was online busily checking out and testing different software programs for re-building the old website at theinquiry.ca. Last night I spent several hours testing one on the freebie version to get a feel for it. If after a little more fiddling around with it I decide I like it and am comfortable working with it I will take the plunge and sign on – then I can get to work re-doing the theinquiry.ca from the ground up. I’m crossing my fingers – am now keen to tackle it and get the job done. I think that I may be able to incorporate the Accused page on the website – … and in the process get back that drop-down menu 🙂

  48. Sylvia says:

    Well, more problems with the site. I had a number of articles lined up to post. All I get is error messages and all the material I had ready to publish is gone! Hopefully my webhost will have the problem in hand by this evening – very frustrating 🙁

  49. Leona says:

    An article appeared on the front page of The Vancouver Sun this morning. It really seems to beg a response around creating safe Catholic schools.
    Like most articles that appear in our papers, they are not accepting online comments, but I’m thinking we could all write letters to the editor.
    I’d love to hear your thoughts.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Catholic+schools+quake+warning+system/8519310/story.html

  50. Lina says:

    What I’m going write about happened while Msgr. Robert Borne’s case was in the news. (in Pembroke Diocese)

    One day, I was eating lunch at a shopping center. I knew this man from years ago when my sons played hockey with his son. This man was in his early 70’s.

    He said the victims of this Msgr. Borne were courageous to come forward. I sense he was proud of everyone of them.

    He then proceeded to talk to me about he himself was abused when he was a child by a Protestant minister.

    I didn’t ask questions, I just listen to him talk. His parents and family members did not believe him. He was told not to forget it and not talk about it, ever. This person felt so alone and betrayed.

    He never heard words such as: ‘Son, I believe you.’ ‘ Brother, I ‘m sorry what happened to you.’ or ‘I wish I was there for you.’ ‘It’s not your fault.’ etc…

    After months after his death a group of us were sharing some memories about him. I spoke about how hard it must have been for him to deal with this clergy sexual abuse stuff by a Protestant minister. Nobody at the table knew about what happened to him as a child. They were surprise.

    Please note, I just told them he was a victim of a Protestant minister. I gave no other in-dept details.

    I don’t know why that particular day this man shared his story with me. I only wish somehow I could had spared him the pain he went through when he was that scared confused little boy. He was a child and this minister was the adult.

    It hurts my heart to think so many clergy abuse victims suffer in silence, have very little support or none whatsoever. Many victims take their stories to the grave and so many priests and ministers get away with their crimes. Many other clergy members have the nerve to look the other way or even pretend it didn’t happened to these innocent souls. So sick, so sad and so criminal!

    I’m grateful Sylvia has this website.

    Thank-you!

  51. Lina says:

    An important Correction.

    It should say: ‘ he was told to forget about it”
    Sorry about that error folks.

    Lina

  52. Lina says:

    I’ve learned that victims/survivors of sexual abuse cope in many different ways.

    There is this girl I went to school with. For obvious reason I will call her ‘Sandy’.
    Sandy came from a family of 3 girls and 3 boys. The family lived on a large farm. (The family is Protestant)

    Sandy like her sisters grew up, married, moved away and started a family.

    One day these three sisters got together. Sandy shared with her sisters, her renewed found faith and deep love for the LORD. She gives daily thanks to JESUS for helping her cope with the sexual abuse at the hands of one of her brothers.

    Sandy thought she was the only one that went through the ordeal. She was surprise to learn her two other sisters went through the same evil experience with the same brother.

    Moving on to a much later date.
    Sandy goes and visit her mother. She is an elderly widow, ill and has a very bad heart. On this particular day, the Pembroke Daily Observer newspaper is on the kitchen table. Sandy’s mom shows her the article about a this Catholic Monsignor facing criminal charges, concerning young boys.

    The mother’s words went something like this to her daughter: ‘Look what’s happening to this poor priest, it’s a shame what their doing to him.’

    Sandy almost lost it, right there. It took all her strength not tell her mother off.

    Sandy eventually did face her abuser…her brother.

    Folks..she got the same attitude and similar response from her brother like the other abuse victims got from their abuser, their priest, bishop and other Roman Catholic Church officials.

    Present day….one sister never wants to talk about it, the other sister keeps herself so busy to forget about it and Sandy keeps loving the Lord and even though she kept changing religion often and she is now convince the Lord as lead her to the right Church this time. Her goal is to become a minster one day.

    Thank you to all who help and support the victims of clergy abuse.

    A special thank-you to Sylvia.

    Lina

  53. Lina says:

    The recent developments in the Pembroke Diocese I’m sure has rattled many people. Some good memories, some not so good and some very bad.

    I have this small wooden Crucifix that was pass down from my great great grandmother eventually came down to my own mom and she gave it to me. This Crucifix was part of an old large wooden rosary. The wooden beads are no more but this Cross survive all these years.

    It was in 1980’s, I decided to get this precious relic bless by a priest, I was ready to take it out from its small bag but the priest didn’t even want to look at the Cross, he just bless the bag that the Cross was in. He started to talk about other stuff and after awhile we eventually said our good-byes. I was disappointed by this priest blessings so the following Sunday I got the little relic re-bless by another priest at another church.

    After Mass this other priest took the Crucifix in his hands, bless it, smiled and said: ‘how so many prayers must have been said on this Cross!’

    I said to myself now that’s was a better blessing.

    As years past by, I didn’t like what was being said about that nice priest who took time to bless my little Crucifix. Moving forward to 2000’s. I decided to push those numerous demon rumors away about that nice priest by getting my little Crucifix bless again by another well known, hard working and a very charismatic priest.

    The future today, I will not have this relic bless again because I realize the original blessing upon this Cross that was attached to all the beads that formed a large rosary; that blessing was good a hundred years ago as well as today. No need to have it bless ever again.

    The 1980’s was a time I was over zealous to have religious articles bless. This following incident that I experienced cured me of that.

    It was a very hot humid day in the late 1980’s but I was determine to have two articles bless. A medal and a book about saints. I got times mixed up and there was no priest to be found so I sat in my car in the church parking lot. I was about to leave then I notice a priest going towards the Cathedral rectory.

    Finally, my luck had changed so I reach the priest after he opened the first door, well the poor man never got to open the inside door. I trapped him between the two doors. He did bless the articles. I thank him and I was one happy girl obviously the priest was not. Somehow I only cared that my perseverance had paid off.

    While in the car I settled down and I started to realize it was not just a priest I cornered between the doors it was a Bishop. It was Bishop Joseph Raymond Windle.

    That incident way back in the 1980’s cured me about blessings, if articles are not bless it’s not the end of the world.

  54. Michel Bertrand says:

    On a different note, I have not seen any discussion here about the changes in mandotory sentencing that may be coming to those convicted of sexual crimes. Is this going to be the legal platform for the ones still in proceedings or does it apply only to newly charged individuals. I hope that it is retro and that this new approach might be applied to individuals who are found guilty of a large number of charges , especially if they have previous convictions. Keep them off the streets, presbetarys and out of the churches. Seems to me the whole “I am a priest” defence may be put aside if the law is more strict and the consequences for offending set out with very little lattitude.

  55. Lina says:

    I wonder is this how so many in the clergy feel when their brother priest did awful stuff to children/the innocent, they go in this mode of making excuses for their brother priests and the victims are left behind or just plain forgotten?

    Over 25 years ago, I didn’t know much or had any experience in dealing with any criminal abusive situations.
    My youngest son had a friend Tom that he use to hang around with (when they were children). Tom was going to turn himself in to the police. He just couldn’t go on keeping his awful secret to himself.

    My son was upset, shock and scared to hear about his childhood friend Tom who molested a 10 yr. old boy of a women he was living with. Tom was 18yrs. old.

    My son went on about how Tom was going to mess up (f—k-up) his whole life. The mother of the boy wasn’t doing anything about it, Tom should just forget about the whole thing, etc…

    I told my son back then that Tom was doing the right thing turning himself in to the police.

    With all the excuses my young son gave me, why Tom should keep quiet. It still didn’t change my mind that Tom did the right thing and I told my young son that.

    I also recall, how my young son did dwell at that time only on his friend Tom and avoided a very important person….that 10 yr. old little boy who was sexually exploited.

    Thankfully, my son did change his views about Tom keeping quiet.

  56. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    I know the diocese of Pembroke monitors this site. Just a few short words in support of Victim “B” , his Mom and his family.
    By forcing this poor man and his family into court, this diocese has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that it does NOT look out for the interests of it’s spiritual flock. It’s all about money, power over the masses, and denial.
    If this is not the case, why force these people to degrade themselves further by being raked over the coals by Carew as if THEY had done the wrong?
    One message for Miller and the diocese – GET OUT NOW! Miller has NO business being a catholic priest. Mike.

    • 1 abandoned sheep says:

      Mike, when did you last see a Bishop of your Diocese display intestinal fortitude?
      I think Nelligan was the last one

  57. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    1 Abandoned Sheep;
    I can’t recall, but when you refer to Nelligan, I can only rely on things that my parent s had told me about him.
    I am so angry right now, I am almost beyond words. How could this diocese as a corporation humiliate this family in the way they have done?
    They were obviously very devout catholics who intimately trusted their priest and their bishop, only to have their faith vaporized by the twisted, deviant sexual desires of a so-called celibate and chaste priest of God.
    I am heart-broken for the mother of Victim “B”, and all of the victims of this creature.
    1 Abandoned Sheep I ask you, where the hell is God in all of this? He seems to be absent! Mike.

    • 1 abandoned sheep says:

      Mike, God is never absent, he is Omni-present.
      Something that gets lost during our anger at these atrocities is that every human was born with a free will. That was part of Creation from the beginning.
      A jerk like the lawyer for Miller, and Miller himself both have free will – to do the right thing, or be deviant in their lives.
      You and I, and most people do not like these people who abuse others, whether it be sexual abuse, or the abuse some people suffer at the hands of lawyers and judges, and- yes- and by some police men.
      God does not sin, but the above-mentioned do. That is life, and it is not always nice or easy. I know a lot about that part.

      • Lina says:

        1 abandoned sheep that is a very excellent response!

        Thank you to the all the victims/survivors of Dan Miller who came forward.
        So many believe, support and wish you well.

        There is very good reasons Father should not be put in front of Dan Miller’s name because this poor excuse for a priest is a fraud and charlatan.

        For those in the CLERGY and all others who took part in anyway to downplay and even clean up the image of Miller’s EVIL escapades shame on you and furthermore you make me ill to my stomach.

        I thank all the other victims/survivors in the Pembroke Diocese for coming forward with their stories of evil done against them.

        As far as I’m concern the clergy in the Pembroke Diocese are batting a big fat ZERO while the victims/survivors of clergy abuse are batting 100.

  58. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    PJ;
    Where are you old friend? I’ve been missing you. Please come on back!!!! Mike.

    • PJ says:

      Mike:

      I’m still here friend…just trying not to post anything because my emotions and mouth get in the way of my level head. I’ve been told by some of my family that my demeanour changes when I spend some time on this site and dwell on things. I have much pent up inside I guess and until I get through what we are dealing with in our case, I need to be careful. Having said this, I will respond from time to time and especially when a friend asks, I reply. Meanwhile I want to keep my words soft and sweet because I never know when I might have to eat them!

  59. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    PJ;
    Great to hear from you.I know how you feel, cuz I’m in the same boat. I was just hoping all was okay. Take care. Mike.

  60. news says:

    hi it was on last night (thurs) just the news anchor stating He was in court the case started this week and mentioned fathering a child the poof on to the next story. Now if i imangined this damn i have a talent in something please be patient as you find the blurp

  61. Lina says:

    I’m slightly off topic here but this is something too important to leave out before I leave this much needed haven website for clergy abuse victims who seek information or want to express themselves about injustices done to them by members of the Catholic Church.

    There’s been conversations about people hoping Pope Francis would expand his talks about homosexuals in the priesthood. So many lives has been affected in many countless ways.

    No doubt there are priests who are gay but still carry out their duties well and live a chaste life.

    Sure Pope Francis said he’s not judging priests who happened to be gay. Like it or not Pope Francis has opened the door about gays in the priesthood and eventually he will need to address this homosexuality topic more deeply instead of just saying he’s not judging these priests.

    Many people who are honest with themselves about this topic already know there are gay priests/clergy but many folks choose not to talk about it because as long these clergy keep doing their job and there’s no scandal about them it just doesn’t matter to these parishioners.

    It’s good to leave gay priests and clergy alone. If it wasn’t for those men there would be less priests around, that’s my humble opinion about it.

    The sad thing is that gay priests and other clergy members pretend or push aside those thoughts they have that gay inclination and this shows gays in the priesthood are ill at ease to reveal that info (even to themselves) being gay because of the backlash they would face. In religious terms: too much of a cross to bear.

    You may think or even say it’s none my business if a priest is gay but it is MY business when it has played a major life change role in my earthly life’s journey.

    There is a big difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. Many wise people know the difference but so many other folks still need to be educated about homosexuality.

    As for myself, I had first hand experience the damage that’s done by a closet gay priest. I wish I would have had the wisdom way back then because maybe, that’s a big maybe I would had dealt with this gay priest differently.

    That gay issue among many other SERIOUS issues are reasons I eventually did leave the Catholic Church.

    I will always support clergy abuse victims/survivors.

    Sylvia is a blessing to have this site and it pains me to know that so many people including certain clergy members make bad statements about Sylvia’s Site and work towards making trouble for Sylvia. She is fulfilling a vital need that the Catholic Church has sadly failed to do big time.

    I have nothing more to add to the conversations at this website except to say to all survivors of clergy abuse to Stay Strong!

    Thank-you,
    Lina

  62. JG says:

    Attempt to move from Father Miller tread, where it did not belong…
    Sylvia, if this does not help it can be removed. I’m just a bit curious to see if this will solve your “problem” moving the tread and could it be used “collaboratively” in other situations when you are having “system difficulties”…

    For “anonymous shame”…if you still need a push out of the “snow bank”…to keep it in season!!…A little “push back” is what you need to be on your way forward sometimes!

    Anonymous shame says:
    January 27, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    I don’t understand this. This is now called historic abuse. When perpetrated by a priest society shows all the interest in bringing these to justice. Yet when the exact same abuse is done to a child by a school teacher it isn’t of interest at all. I endured “spankings” in front of some 40 other children. This woman removed clothing. Repeated and ritualistic savagery! Beaten into submission, broken into states of dissociation. And all this occurred before she took the great Canadian strap to by naked body. Yet in my own community I ask for old photos in my search through blocked memories looking for witnesses and identities. All I get is ” Ill look” when I share what happened they say “oh it was different back then” and “oh I’m so sorry that happened” If it were them they would be hunting the abuser as well but it is not them so oh well they go back to their nice comfy lives. It would be a far stretch of the imagination that out of the say 40 children, that today not one of those adults can recall witnessing me being dragged while being screamed at to the front of the classroom. Having the whole class threatened to shut up and stay seated and watch. The grapevine hasn’t worked. Word hasn’t trickled down. Fellow survivors or victims of this woman havn’t come forward. No trail of survivors, no class action. No compensation for lost wages , therapy for depression. No drugs for anxiety and social phobia. No news coverage. But then again teachers were probably taught at normal collage how to do that properly. Strap on the hands I can understand. I know of one other boy she enjoyed torturing but he is dead now. Years later I asked him about what she did to him and he denied it. I can only guess he had blocked it out or too ashamed to admit because I was in that room witnessing her the day she did one of her beatings on him. It was bare bottom just like the priest above. But the cases of the “teachers” apparently has never and perhaps will never become the witch hunt the abusing priest endure.
    Reply
    JG says:
    January 28, 2014 at 7:28 am

    Anonymous shame,
    Good story but not very believable! You seem more intent to deflect the attention from priests to teachers…or anyone else for that matter.
    I don’t buy any of it. You sound like a fraudulent writer with a bad script!
    The same old story revisited on this site and often promoted by church and supporters…
    Nice try!
    jg
    Reply
    Former Parishoner says:
    January 28, 2014 at 10:14 am

    Am with you there, JG, a deflection, for sure!!!
    Reply
    Mike Fitzgerald says:
    January 28, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    Hey Anonymous Shame;
    You know how to push buttons, eh? Your caustic little dig at the end of your epistle regarding “witch hunts” is giving you away.
    If it were not for these “witch hunts”, how many criminal clerics would still be walking the streets alongside our children? Mike.
    Reply
    Anonymous shame says:
    January 28, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    Oh my. Bad wording not meant in support of or to deflect. It was sarcasm pointed at the indifference. I just want this world to understand that there were teachers in the public school system who abused the same way. Exactly as written. The fact that people like you just insulted abused children who are now adults, who have finally found the courage to speak up after decades of silence, is odd. You don’t believe that teachers were not capable of doing these things? Just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. You just insulted me and all others who were abused in the exact way as what I read above. That is the exact same thinking that let these garbage priests get away with their crap all those years. The question remains, when will the “hunt” for abusing molesting school teachers begin. Perhaps it is you who are protecting the former teachers by denouncing what happened. Where is the “fervor” you used in bringing justice to victims of parochial crimes, when you know damn well “things” happened in non parochial schools as well. Come on people share some of your wisdom and search in your own communities and ask around. If it happened here it happened elsewhere. Priests weren’t the only offending scum! Lets not let offending former school teachers get away with what the priest got away with for so long. That is all I am saying. I don’t know how much clearer I can be.
    Reply
    Miecul says:
    January 29, 2014 at 9:58 am

    A.S. I know of 1 teacher in my town who was a pedophile. Problem is he’s dead. I know the man who finally told someone about this abuse about a year ago, and after about 45 years. There are students coming forward now. The priests are getting the headlines because of their position and who they are. The teacher’s are right up there with the trust position. Anglican ministers and other religions have been in the same boat.

    A.S. maybe you could start your own Web Site about teacher sex abuse, like Sylvia has with priests. I bet there are former students out there looking for information and a place to go. Google this “historic teacher sex abuse Canada” and see how many there are here in Canada alone, and not just teachers, every walk of life. People are coming forward it just takes time.
    Reply
    Anonymous shame says:
    January 28, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    try this : But the cases of the former so called “teachers” apparently has never and perhaps will never become the search for justice the abusing priest deserved.
    Reply
    PJ says:
    January 28, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    AS: You argue that only collars are getting the attention and not pervert teachers…that’s because this site is for pervert collars. You need to start your own website similar to this but for teachers who abuse. Why are you insulting us for not widening the circle to include teachers?…Not going to happen! We have enough pervert collars to expose and prosecute. Please leave us alone and quit harping about other groups of perverts…time for you to start your own site my man. God bless.
    Reply
    JG says:
    January 28, 2014 at 6:33 pm

    A. Shame…
    Easier and simpler if you started, don’t you think?…You are using a very wide brush. I and many have heard victims on this site contribute their stories and have helped bring out other victims who were previously isolated. They then found support, understanding and some Peace of mind…
    Don’t blame the lack of “fervor” or empathy on anything but your lack of “sharing” and clarity…Maybe it is too early for you and everyone always respects that.
    If you want to be believable here and elsewhere you will have to get into more details…without naming names at this stage, the where, when, how ….would get you on your journey….

    …”when will the “hunt” for abusing molesting school teachers begin.” you asked above? Maybe that is for you to start, your own web site maybe, when you are ready to open the door more than a crack!
    This site deals with :
    “Blogging the sex abuse scandal and betrayals of trust in the Roman Catholic Church in Canada”.
    Sylvia may have enough on her plate as it is without the “teachers” file, the “hockey coach” file, the “neighbor” file, the “family file” ,etc.
    Even after your above attempt at being “insulted”, I don’t find you very convincing…
    You are welcome to try again…
    You have an audience and I will be the first one to admit I was wrong and to apologize…when the picture you want to paint becomes believable. Otherwise, I personally won’t find it necessary or very helpful to waste more time on this.

    jg
    Reply
    Sylvia says:
    January 29, 2014 at 12:07 am

    Anonymous Shame, I am not posting your most recent comment. I don’t see this discussion going in a direction which assists anyone. This thread is intended to be for comments regarding Father Ian Cooper. I don’t understand why you chose to start your comments here. It is terribly frustrating for those who are trying to glean information on Father Cooper to have to go through all of these posts which are totally irrelevant.

    I am bringing this discussion to a close.

    I understand your frustration A.S., however this site is not the forum for you. I wish you well.

    I will let these recent comments stand for one day and then – with apologies to all who blogged – will delete them so that the thread can be cleaned up. (I tried to find a simple way to transfer the comments to the the Dialogue page – can’t do. If I could I would let the exchange stand, but would still draw it to a close)
    Reply
    PJ says:
    January 29, 2014 at 7:49 am

    Thanks Sylvia…it was becoming really frustrating.
    Reply
    ______________________________________
    ……..end of pasted conversation.

    Maybe an honest, civil conversation is still possible…Maybe ” A shame” is the robbed, beaten traveler on the side of the road who needs help and no one has stopped…

    jg

    • Sylvia says:

      Yes JG, that’s good. I would like to have literally moved each comment individually – but that will capture the exchange and do the trick. Thank you 🙂

      I think an honest civil conversation would be possible, but it’s well removed from the purposes of this site. Anonymous Shame is right in noting that there are serious problems of child sex abuse everywhere. I am well aware of that sad and shocking reality, and have seen that almost invariably institutions or organizations cover-up, tolerate and willfully leave or place children at risk. Over the years I have concluded that, when it comes to child sexual abuse, it’s been the same modus operandi everywhere.

      Yes, there are teachers who molest. And parents. And lawyers. And police officers. And coaches. And politicians. And. And. And.

      The problems are real, and heartbreaking. Unfortunately I can not however, for many reasons, open the site to address those cases. It is not because I don’t care, but I know my limitations.

      My prayers are with you Anonymous Shame. I think the advice to consider setting up a blog is good.

      My hands are full, and I am dealing with molesters in the

      • JG says:

        Sylvia,
        Totally agree and, as I stated above , sometimes a push out of the snow bank gets you on your way(personal experience during the last storm!…) …with less frustration and anger…at everyone driving by and around.
        Definitely can’t expect to also get a free gas fill-up in such a circumstance!!!….
        jg

  63. JG says:

    Sorry….above from Ian Cooper tread, not Miller…
    jg

  64. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    I had a defining moment (moments) today and I would like to share it with you. In the face of much darkness in the coming days, I’m hoping my rather lengthy epistle will manifest some deep thoughts, and possibly a bit of humour.
    You see, I’m a bit of a music buff. I’m also a truck driver. I have an extensive collection of classical CD’s which I regularly listen to while at work. I have usually shunned the radio stations, preferring my CD’s which usually provide me with peace and an interest in “deeper thinking”
    Yesterday was an exception. It was a beautiful sunny day, I was feeling really good because I don’t think I’ve seen the sun since last October! So, purely out of interest in broadening my musical experiences, I decided to experiment.
    My employment had dictated to me that I would travel from Toronto to Owen Sound Ont., so I would have lots of time to experience music and deep thoughts. I’ve heard a lot (and wondered) about this newfangled “rap” syndrome sweeping the globe so I decided to “tune in” and have a new experience. Bear in mind here that my co-workers are quite often deeply suspicious of me, in my musical interests. Let’s face it, I’m a truck driver, and truck drivers do NOT listen to classical music, Right?
    Anyway, I’m pulling onto Hwy.#400 northbound when I find my “rap” station. I am immediately lulled into irritation by the “passage of music” I am listening to. The lyrics are largely unintelligible, except for two phrases which I can make out quite clearly. They are “kill a cop” and “rape your sister”. I’ve gotta confess here, I can’t recall anywhere in history where I had a yearning to kill a cop, or rape my sister! This rhythmic pounding continues (minus any music) for about the next 5 minutes. I am going past King City Ont., and I have not blossomed any new interest in the “new” music world. As a matter of fact, I can feel the onset of a relatively minor headache. I used to think that breath control, diction, phrasing, etc. were exercises utilized in the composition and performance of really beautiful music. I was WRONG. These are apparently prerequisites for the manufacture, sale, and use of illegal drugs in the back alley. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Time to change the channel.
    In my search, I come across 98.1 FM CHFI. I tune in, turn up the volume, and am immediately viciously assaulted by the hysterical screeching and tuneless howling of a newly discovered “idol”. The only phrase I can pick up is apparently “Save your Scissors” or something to that effect. This phrase is repeated 49 times during the 2 1/2 minute “song”. I force myself to listen to the entire “song”. At this point I am approaching Barrie Ont.
    The headache has went from bearable to acute and splitting. I am beginning to feel homicidal, and have a new-found interest in “road-rage”. It’s still a long way to Owen Sound, and my 70 ton cargo is liquid and explosive. Not a good mix, huh? Nevertheless, I digress.
    I make it onto Hwy. #26 without incident, and proceed west-bound with ALL sorts of evil intent, thanks to the music of this newfound “idol”.
    By the time I get to Stayner, I can’t take this sh.. anymore. Time to change the channel! My experiment I feel is going awry.
    What does a truck driver do in times of great stress, I ask? Well, he turns on a “country” station. This I did.
    I need a break here, and so do you. Stay tuned. Mike

  65. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    Okay, thanks for the break. I tune in the “country” station. The introduction is really soothing, a soft instrumental prelude that is indicating some peace, and a warm feeling. Then it ENDS! The guy singing the song has a really good singing voice, but his story is absolutely heart-breaking.
    Here we go! I’m just thinking that my headache is going to subside, the homicidal feelings will disappear, and I will lose that uncontrollable urge to ram somebody when the singer begins his story.
    His dog (pronounced dauwg) got run over my a Mack truck (pronounced trook), his house burnt down, his wife (pronounced waff) done went and left him, and he has acquired a 5 alarm sun-burn from sitting on the tail-gate of his pick-up trook, drinkin’ beer with his girl (not his wife)! Holy Sh..! This guy is a loser, with a capital “L”.
    I am travelling through Meaford right now, weeping for this poor bastard. Without bad luck, the poor sucker would have none (spelled nun). Homicidal feelings have completely disappeared, replaced by a heavy hearted despair. At this point I have completely forgotten that this is the first time I have seen the sun since last October. Nevertheless, I digress.
    I turn the radio OFF! When I finally arrive in Owen Sound, I have made an executive decision. Those of you who know me will be aghast, because I did not consult “lovey” when I made this decision. You know the old saying “if you can’t fight ’em, join ’em!” Well, at this point, I “cain’t” help myself. it just ain’t right (spelled ratt). I am now an emotional wreck because of my musical experiment.
    When I return to home (Oshawa) things are gonna’ happen. Stay tuned. Mike

  66. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    When I get up tomorrow morning, I am going to scrape together all my coffee change, go downtown and get my entire body covered with tattoos and piercings with multi-coloured studs and earings. Then, with what money I have left I’ll go across the street to Walmart and buy the biggest and baggiest pair of jeans I can find, secure them firmly around my mid’thigh (making sure the crotch is below my knees), get a pink shirt with all sorts of rude and crude slogans emblazoned on it, and then the requisite Toronto Maple Leaf baseball cap, which I will don backwards as required. (there’s a real oxy-moron for you – an NHL baseball cap)
    Once these purchases are complete, and I have donned my new attire, I will proceed down Simcoe Street in Oshawa muttering unintelligibly, shuffling ( can only take 6″ steps because of the jeans) and stopping occasionally to have deep philosophical conversations with the nearest hydro pole.
    There, Voila!!!!! Problem solved!! I’ll fit right in.
    The only remaining problem will be when “lovey” sends out gold-embossed invitations to my funeral. You will then be required to come and view my mutilated and defiled corpse, because I failed to “consult”!
    If you should find yourself wandering down Simcoe Street in Oshawa this summer, and you possibly come across the creature described above, please stop and say “Hi”.
    It’s probably me. Mike. (just kidding, of course)

  67. Leona says:

    Great story, Mike! While I have my undergrad degree in classical music, I must confess to really liking City and Colour’s “Save Your Scissors” if that’s what you were listening to. However, if it contributes to dangerous driving then you’d better go back to listening to Brahms!

  68. Mike Blum says:

    Hey Mike,
    Great entertainment for a Saturday night, you should submit that to the Star. If you ever need a passenger let me know.
    Mike

    p.s. Save your scissors

  69. JG" says:

    Mike,
    Let me just add to the “great” and “funny”…For “moi”, it is a little “scary”! It brought me back to the 24th February 1991, around 12:20 noon, the last time I “met” a truck driver at the wheel of an explosive liquid! Don’t know what he was listening to but he did jump out of his own lane and into my “trook”…sending me and my friend flying up in the air about 30 feet…Another “lucky” moment for me!…
    It took me 3 months to get over the pain, three years to stop leaning over to the left every time I met a “transport”. My friend was in much worst shape and to this day still needs therapy.
    I don’t really care what you will listen to…No, I do! Stick to classical, be strange for your co-workers if that’s what it takes! No tattoos, no piercings, no low crotch! Deep thoughts….deep thoughts…deep thoughts…
    A pick-up “trook” is no match for your tanker!
    Please, consult “lovey”! … 🙂

    Just curious, do you drive a “Castrol” tanker?…(nervous smile!)
    jg

  70. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    JG;
    Mission accomplished! I have of course greatly embellished the facts of my trip (and my mental state) just to bring on a chuckle or two. We all need this from time to time, and I’m no exception.
    As for your upsetting experience, I certainly do not want to make light of it! I actually take my job VERY seriously, and am not prone to violent outbursts, or road rage, so please rest easy.
    As for the tanker, it’s actually 2 tankers connected (known as B-Trains) and I carry gasoline and Jet A-1.
    I am easily recognized by the bald shining head, and the deep wrinkles.
    Take care my friend. mike.

  71. JG" says:

    Mike,
    I also have a very “dry” sense of humor…the proverbial embarrassing moment!? Chuckles all around!… There are a few errors in my text, I thought you would spot them…
    My story is all true, without the worst details. Only a distant memory.
    It is strange also that I am quite familiar with “petroleum distribution”…One of my past and MANY occupations…
    Be safe.
    jg

  72. Leona says:

    I’ve just seen the story of the Pope picking up two young boys and giving them a lift in the Pope Mobile. Is anyone else disturbed by this story, or is it just me? In one of the articles the kids are described as “lucky.” Isn’t that how many of us felt when Father singled us out in the grooming process. I’m not saying there’s anything untoward in the Pope’s actions, but the optics aren’t great.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2606142/Pope-stops-pick-hitchhikers-Pontiff-thrills-two-Italian-schoolboys-takes-ride-pope-mobile.html

  73. Lina says:

    I’m sharing with you a letter of closure of mine I sent to a priest on Tuesday, June 26th in the year 2012. I will not mention the priest’s name for obvious reasons. Since then I did leave the Roman Catholic Church. I still go into a Catholic Church for funerals, baptisms and weddings.

    Tuesday, June 26, 2012

    Father,

    These special words are coming from a scratch-up heart.

    I’ve got over 50 plus years of Catholicism gone down the drain.

    Father, you hold the honor to have been the last priest I went and confess to.

    It’s been over a year and a half since that last confession.

    I will never set foot in any confessional again.

    I will never forget what you did Father and said by your numerous deceiful and ill-mannered behavior ways.

    Father, in public you are a very knowledgeable and somewhat a charismatic priest.
    In private, the approach as a priest you depict is twisted and offensive.

    Father, you will have no control when the truth will surface.

    What truth you may ask? That is any truth that you are keeping undisclosed and locked away.
    The only limit control you will have when these truths are reveal one day is how you will react to them and how you will deal with them.

    Because of your friend and yourself, I’m now a clergy abuse victim survivior.
    Furthermore, I don’t trust the Catholic clergy any more.

    I’ve come to the conclusion Father, where one particular evil comes from. That unique evil grew in some part of you and now it seemed to have been passed on to me. I don’t want it and I totally reject that unusual evil.

    Nevertheless, there is always that chance and that hope you may have changed your ways Father. If so, GOOD for you!

    Finally,
    The odds are, you couldn’t care less what I told you in the above paragraphs and perhaps you don’t even care whatever happens to me.

    All I know, life is too short and these words of mine had to be said before DEATH over takes one of us at some point in time.

    Good-bye and good luck Father.

    From an ex-parishioner of yours,

    Lucille Lina Nighbor

  74. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    Frankie’s real colours are now showing. He states “it is absurd to say you follow Jesus Christ, but reject the church”!
    I guess I’m absurd. What do the Inuits, or the Metis, or protestants feel about this?
    Frankie just lost me forever. I’m just absurd. Mike.

    • 1 abandoned sheep says:

      Mike, I did not think you would reduce your comments to attacking the Catholic Church. I am a Catholic, and happy that I am.
      What you are saying here I take as an insult to EVERY Catholic, Sylvia included.

      • PJ says:

        1AS: I don’t think Mike is attacking catholics, he’s criticizing Frankie for his statement on calling non-catholics absurd. I WAS a catholic but still believe in God and Jesus Christ…I just don’t believe I need a church to do that. Frankie could have easily fixed the abuse problems but he has skirted the issue and in doing so, has showed once again how little collars care about victims. So who’s the absurd one?

        • 1 abandoned sheep says:

          PJ. it is always absurd when we try to put ourselves in someone else’s shoes , and guess what we would or should do.
          The reality of facing a serious situation is serious.
          Where would you or I even know about Jesus Christ if it was NOT for the Catholic Church?
          Did any of the other new-comer religions author the New Testament? Hardly.

  75. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    Lina;
    You’re going to be just fine! It’s a bitter pill to swallow when you realize something you lived for your entire life could possibly be a sham.
    Keep your head up, and rise above it all. Mike.

    • Lina says:

      Mike,
      This journey of mine began when I set out to prove that this certain priest from the Pembroke Diocese (who is deceased) that I truly believed was being falsely accused of doing bad things to boys.
      This priest was so nice and helpful to me but that was not the case for other people. It was sad to discover this priest did betray the trust of young males.

      By this experience, I became aware of the plight of so many other victims and survivors who were abuse by the Roman Catholic Church’s clergy.
      I gathered information, I put in many hours of research in church history, spoke to different people, etc…That was all during a 10 year period.

      In the end, I came to the same conclusion common to other sources of investigating work by other folks.
      The Catholic Church did move troubled predator priests from one area to another different area, they did cover up crimes against the young and innocent, victims were treated like it was their fault and I could go on and on.

      What is unbelievable is that this priest was not one isolated case. The Catholic Church knew about other cases of clergy abuse similar to this priest in their Diocese.

      There are many reasons why I left the Catholic Church but this world wide abuse scandal is just too big to ignore.
      The one reason that should have kept me in the Catholic Church is the Eucharist.

      Why was I able to eventually leave the Catholic Church and the Eucharist?
      If the Vatican, whole Catholic clergy, these priests, these men really believed the Eucharist was the Real Presence ‘JESUS’ they would had found ways AGES AGO to clean up this scandalous abuse mess.

      At this time in my life, I believe the Eucharist is a symbol and a remembrance of the last supper.
      I am speaking heresy here according to the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings.

      This is my PERSONAL opinion. Catholic priests and other Catholic clergy, let me just say I can live and function very well without these men in my life.

      I love Jesus. I can talk and invite Jesus anytime into my contrite heart.

      I’m a Christian with very little Roman Catholic tendencies now.

      This is who I am and I’m okay with that.

      Lina

      • Sylvia says:

        What immense damage has been done by these predators in the Church!

        I still go to Mass -I have said before that I can not conceive life without the sacraments. I share your thought that predatory priests do not believe the Real Presence, however I do not conclude from that that transubstation does not occur.

        I realize your post is directed at Mike but did want to say those few words. CommentS re lack of belief in the Real Presence will evoke upset and comment from those who do.

        That is not what Sylvia’s Site is about. It pains me and others to know that so many have lost faith in the Church and the Sacraments every bit as much as it pains others to know that I and others still attend Mass.

        Please everyone stick to comment on those who molest and those who cover up on their behalf.

        • 1 abandoned sheep says:

          And , what damage has been done by people too weak in their Faith to stick with the Catholic Church, rather than rag on I !

          • PJ says:

            Sylvia…1AS needs to be reined in I think. If he thinks those of us who leave that church after being put through hell in abuse by pervert collars are weak, then he’s insulting a lot of us!!

          • Sylvia says:

            It’s far from that 1 abandoned sheep. That’s a hard and cruel shot below the belt. It has nothing to do with being weak. Nothing. A child who is sexually abused by a priest sees and understand what happens through the eyes of a child. For the large large majority their faith is destroyed. I have been in touch with countless victims over the years. I can count on one hand the number who can bring themselves to set foot inside the door of a church. That is the horror of clerical sexual abuse. I will be the last one in the world to condemn or insult them for that. Unfortunately, I understand where they are coming from. Many of those with whom I have spoken talk about the terrible void they feel in their lives.

            I am not here to point fingers. It’s all well beyond me. I pray for them.

            That is one of the reasons I hate seeing the blog swinging in this direction. No one does anyone any favour by lashing out at the other.

          • Lina says:

            1 abandoned sheep,

            I know you were reacting to my post, it’s really me your are disappointed with.

            If I decide to go into a Catholic Church and there’s a Mass. I wouldn’t go and receive the Host like some kind of cracker. I wouldn’t dare desecrate the Eucharist. I’m a cradle Catholic I know one doesn’t make fun or fool around with the Eucharist.
            I respect what the Eucharist represents for you and other Catholics.

            The only way for me to receive the Eucharist is in a state of grace not in a state of mortal sin.

            That would mean I would need to go to Confession first.

        • Lina says:

          Sylvia,
          There is something that happens to many a clergy who are ordained in priesthood.
          I’m not talking specifically the miracle of transubstantiation here even though it does in some way crisscross with the abused power that comes from it. I believe it’s never Jesus’ fault.

          There is this Deacon who wanted to be an ordained priest. He found out through time like many of us about the clergy abuse scandals. He approach on numerous occasions his superiors/church officials and many other ordained men in the priesthood about his concerns for clergy abuse victims and those clergy who were not conducting themselves like real priests’ should.

          This Deacon was not being ordained a priest because he wouldn’t let go about telling those in authority the wrong they were doing to clergy abuse victims. He wanted them to deal with these priests who acted evil.
          The more this Deacon push for justice the more he became an outcast among the clergy within the Catholic Church.

          I was told by the mother of this Deacon, a priest came and gave her son some sound advice. Her son needed to listen and not give Church officials such a hard time about voicing his concerns the way the Church officials were handling these clergy abuse cases. What he told the Deacon next is unbelievable but true.

          “You want to be ordained. You need to suck up to them, you suck up to them, after you are an ordained priest, then you can tell them where to go.”

          It’s not the invisible sign we don’t see in an ordained priest I’m talking about. It’s this unique power many men in the priesthood believe they have, is a cut above the rest of us. We are all special in God’s eyes but many have the attitude the priesthood is more special and have super rights above anything else. That may be the reason the Catholic Church feels they should be above the law of the land and have things done their own way.

          In my opinion, the ordination of these men in priesthood is heavily link to the abuse crises in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church seem to see the victims/survivors of these bad priests as some kind of Victim Souls that is necessary for the good of the progression of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

          • Sylvia says:

            I have often said and will say again Line that I believe the Church has been hijacked by these men.

            And that’s all I am going to say. I have a lot on my plate now – no time for arguing or discussing or debating a topic which I don’t believe will do anything to help victims, stop child sex abuse in the Church, hold those who abuse and/or cover up accountable. Those who want to carry on such debates need to find another venue.

            Priest who prey on others are not fit to be priests. For me it’s as simple as that – whether they present as the essence of orthodoxy or are as chronic dissenters they do not belong in the priesthood. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing – forvthem the end justifies the means, and their end is self- gratification.

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