Borne: Monsignor Robert Borne

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Robert Lloyd BorneMonsignor Robert Borne)

Priest Diocese of Pembroke, Ontario.  Ordained 1974.  25 November 2011:  GUILTY

04 December 2015Borne was laicizied/reduced to the lay state/defrocked

THIS PAGE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION

 10 April 2012:  Nine month conditional sentence

Next court date:  10 April 2012 for Sentencing:  10 am, courtroom #3 or #5, Pembroke Ontario courthouse (297 Pembroke Street East).

TRIAL:  Rescheduled to 21 November 2011( 10 am, courtroom #3 Pembroke courthouse, Main St., Pembroke.  Trial by judge – booked for two weeks)  14 November 2011 (10 am Pembroke courthouse.  Trial by judge – booked for two weeks)

Week of 26 September set aside for pre-trial motions (one motion heard Monday 26 – that was it for the week)15 March 2011 (10 am, two days booked for pre-trial motions);   01 November 2010 (Crown and defence to set trial date) 07 (o6?) October 2010 (Continuation of judicial pre-trial); 13 September 2010 (judicial pretrial)  

First charged April 2009 (police investigation lasted over a year).  Eventually faced 19 charges related to allegations of sexual abuse of five teenage boys between the years 1977 and 1995.  Five of the charges were later withdrawn or dismissed by the Crown.  (On 14 July 2010 Justice Robert Selkirk ruled that eight charges related to three complainants should not proceed to trial.  Borne will now stand trial on four charges related to the sex abuse allegations of two “alleged” victims)

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25 January 2016:  Borne laicized (defrocked) 04 December 2015

29 November 2011:  R v Borne Reasons for Decision ( Judge denies Crown motion to admit evidence of other discreditable conduct by Father Robert Borne at the priest’s trial)

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25 August 2010:  Correspondence: Pembroke Priest for Justice, Truth & Integrity

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Priest, Diocese of Pembroke, Ontario.

20 April 1974:  Ordained (Joseph Raymond Windle Bishop of Pembroke at the time)

1974-1975:  Priest at St. Ann Church, Mattawa, Ontario

1978:  according to one source was a counsellor and taught religion at Catholic High in Pembroke from 1978 until 1982 other chaplains at the school were Fathers O’Brien and Dobec.  At the same time Borne had begun to serve as Secretary to Bishop Windle.  The school was within easy walking distance of the diocesan offices.

In 1982 the school relocated to the building formely known as Champlain High.  At that time Catholic High changed its name to Bishop Smith Catholic High.

Borne continued to function as a chaplain at Bishop Smith, as did O’Brien and, I think, Dobec.  It seems that around this time or shortly before the move Father W. Kenny joined the group of chaplains.

An entry in Lift Up Your Hearts (Legree) reads:

In September of 1982, Catholic High School moved to a new site at Bishop Smith School.

A team of three Chaplains, Fathers K. O’Brien, R. Borne and W. Kenney work closely with the teachers and students to build a Catholic School community.

http://www.theinquiry.ca/wordpress/2010/07/15/what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-60813

1980: Vice Chancellor and Secretary (Chancellor Msgr. M. H. Barry) Also serving on the diocesan marriage tribunal.

– Master of Ceremonies to Bishop Windle

– In charge of Missionary Education and Liturgy for the Diocese

1985-1986:  Chancellor Diocese of Pembroke – also serving on the marriage tribunal

1992:  Chancellor, – also serving on the marriage tribunal

1993: Chancellor – also serving on the marriage tribunal (Bishop Joseph Windel retired 05 May 1993- Bishop Brendan O’Brien installed 22 June 1993)

1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998:  Chancellor –  also serving on the marriage tribunal

1995-2008:  Pastor at St. James Church, Eganville (also Nativity of Our Lady Mission Church, Golden Lake, Ontario)  (still listed as Chancellor and serving on the tribunal in the 1999, 2000 and 2002 directories which I have on hand)

01 September 2004:  was appointed priest coordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.  As I understand it he continued to pastor at St. James in Eganville.

June 2008:  appointed to serve on the Diocesan Marriage Tribunal (Eganville Leader) (I have been told that Borne was removed from Eganville around or shortly after the time sex abuse allegations against a student at St. James School became public)

April 2009:  first charges laid  against Monsignor Borne

August 2009: Relieved of his pastoral duties and moved to the chancery office in Pembroke to perform administrative duties

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16 April 2012: Eganville priest given conditional sentence for indecent assault

11 April 2012:  BLOG Happy Day

11 April 2012:  Victim describes loss of faith in Catholic Church because of abuse by Robert Borne

11 April 2012: Borne receives house arrest for indecent assault

11 April 2012: Monsignor Borne given nine-month conditional sentence

10 April 2012: BLOG Tut tut!

15 December 2011: Comments on “Forgive Us Our Trespasses”

10 December 2011: Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive others. . .

07 December 2011: Forgive Us Our Trespasses

30 November 2011:  Robert Borne convicted of indecent assault

30 November 2011: Robert Borne testifies he did grope a teenage boy but maintains he is not gay

28 November 2011:  BLOG A recap

25 November 2011: Pembroke Diocese Press Release re conviction of Monsignor Robert Borne

25 November 2011: Msgr. Borne found guilty

25 November 2011: Pembroke priest found guilty of indecent assault and gross indecency

25 November 2011: Ontario priest convicted of 1979 assault 

25 November 2011: BLOG Guilty!

25 November 2011: Judge to hand down Borne verdict today

24 November 2011: BLOG Not on duty when groping

24 November 2011: Monsignor Borne takes the stand at assault trial

23 November 2011: Second alleged victim recalls Borne advances at Griffith rectory (Day Two of trial)

23 November 2011: Borne trial hears of sexual assaults in Pembroke rectory (Day One of trial)

23 November 2011: BLOG He slit his own throat

23 November 2011: Teen OK with getting groped, priest testifies with comments

23 November 2011: Witness’s credibility attacked

23 November 2011: BLOG That was it!

22 November 2011:  Alleged victim talks

16 March 2011:  Trial of Pembroke priest to start Nov. 14

03 November 2010:  Borne trial date possibly next fall  (scroll down)

22 September 2010:  Borne judicial pre-trial continues in October

16 September 2010: Court process continues

26 August 2010:  BLOG Pembroke Priests for Justice, Truth & Integrity

03 August 2010:  Very very very strange

15 July 2010: Eight charges dropped

15 July 2010:  BLOG What happened?

14 July 2010:  BLOG Any news?

14 July 2010:  Pembroke priest to face fewer charges

 

16 July 2009:  Some thoughts

15 July 2009:  Ottawa Valley priest faces more charges

10 June 2009: Priest is charged for sexual assaults

06 June 2009:  Local priest charged

05 June 2009:  Another one (BLOG)

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Msgr. Borne could stand trial this fall

The Pembroke Daily Observer

19 June 2010

A Pembroke priest will stand trial on charges of gross indecency and indecent assault.

Monsignor Robert Borne was in court June 14 to hear the arguments of Assistant Crown attorney John Pepper and his lawyer Robert Carew meant to help determine if there is enough evidence to proceed to trial on the various sex-related charges against the 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest.

The defence did not argue about the gross indecency and indecent assault charges, and Msgr. Borne could stand trial on the charges as early as this fall. He was facing 19 charges including gross indecency, sexual exploitation, indecent assault against a male and breach of trust, in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1993, although five were withdrawn or dismissed by the crown this week.

A publication ban has been imposed to protect the identities of the alleged victims.

Justice Robert Selkirk is expected to deliver his decision on the other counts July 14.

In January 2008, the Renfrew County Crime Unit of the Ontario Provincial Police began its investigation after receiving a complaint that a sexual assault allegedly occurred while a (then) teenage boy visited Msgr. Borne.

Other people came forward to police as a result of the original investigation.

He was initially charged in April 2009 in relation to three alleged victims. Last June, police began looking into complaints that he allegedly sexually assaulted other teenage boys. He was arrested June 5, 2009 when he turned himself in at the Renfrew OPP detachment.

A Pembroke native, Msgr. Borne was ordained April 20, 1974. He was a curate in Mattawa between 1974 and 1975.

From 1975 until 2003 he served in a number of administrative roles including chancellor of the diocese, secretary to the bishop and curate at Our Lady of Lourdes.

In 2003, Msgr. Borne became pastor of St. James Parish in Eganville and Nativity of Our Lady Mission in Golden Lake.

On Sept. 1, 2004, he was appointed priest co-ordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.

Tina Peplinskie is a Daily Observer reporter

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11 April 2010:  Diocese speaks about defrocked Pembroke priest

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Robert Borne’s case is ongoing

10 December 2009

Pembroke Daily Observer

Posted By SEAN CHASE

A Pembroke priest facing a number of sex-related charges in relation to five alleged victims will appear in court Jan. 5.

Robert Borne, 61, a Roman Catholic priest, is facing 19 charges including gross indecency, sexual exploitation, indecent assault against a male and breach of trust, in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1993.

In a provincial court in Pembroke Tuesday, Justice Robert Selkirk learned from duty counsel Jason Conklin, speaking for Mr. Borne’s attorneys, that they wish to proceed by way of discovery instead of conducting a preliminary inquiry.

Justice Selkirk said the original dates for the inquiry were from April 19 to April 27. He agreed to confirm dates for the discovery examination on Jan. 5. Mr. Borne was not in the courtroom.

The Renfrew County Crime Unit of the Ontario Provincial Police began its investigation January 2008 after receiving a complaint that a sexual assault allegedly occurred while a then-teenage boy visited Mr. Borne.

Other people came forward to police as a result of the original investigation. Mr. Bourne was initially charged in April in relation to three alleged victims.

In June, police began looking into complaints that he allegedly sexually assaulted other teenage boys. He was arrested June 5 when he turned himself in at the Renfrew OPP detachment.

Sean Chase is a Daily Observer reporter

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Prehearing set

Pembroke Daily Observer

07 October 2009

Posted By TINA PEPLINSKIE TPEPLINSKIE@THEDAILYOBSERVER.CA

A prehearing has been scheduled for a Pembroke priest facing a number of sex-related assault charges involving five alleged victims.

On Nov. 17, the Crown attorney and defence counsel for Monsignor Robert Borne will meet to discuss the charges against the 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest. The Crown has elected to proceed by indictment.

Msgr. Borne faces 19 charges, including gross indecency, sexual exploitation, indecent assault male and breach of trust, in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1993.

He was initially charged by the Ontario Provincial Police Renfrew County Crime Unit in April in relation to three alleged victims.

The investigation began in January 2008 after receiving a complaint that a sexual assault allegedly occurred while the teenage boy visited Msgr. Borne.

Other people came forward to police as a result of the original investigation.

In June, police began looking into complaints that he allegedly sexually assaulted other teenage boys.

The well-known local Roman Catholic priest is a native of Pembroke. He turned himself in at the Renfrew OPP detachment June 5 when he was arrested.

In 2003, Msgr. Borne became pastor of St. James Parish in Eganville and Nativity of Our Lady Mission in Golden Lake.

On Sept. 1, 2004, he was appointed priest co-ordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.

Msgr. Borne was ordained on April 20, 1974. He was a curate in Mattawa between 1974 and 1975.

From 1975 until 2003 he served in a number of administrative roles including chancellor of the diocese, secretary to the bishop and curate at Our Lady of Lourdes.

Tina Peplinskie is a Daily Observer reporter

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 Ottawa Valley priest faces additional sex charges

Pembroke Daily Observer

15 July 2009

Posted By JON WILING, SUN MEDIA

Provincial police have laid more sex charges against an Ottawa Valley priest, who already faces accusations going back more than 30 years.

Monsignor Robert Borne, 61, was further charged yesterday with two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust after police identified more complainants, who were teenaged boys at the time of the alleged incidents. Borne appeared in a Pembroke court yesterday.

In April, Borne was charged with six offences based on incidents alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995 involving three people. He was arrested in June. Renfrew County OPP continue to investigate.

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More charges laid against Monsignor Borne

Pembroke Daily Observer

14 July 2009

Posted By Debbie Robinson

Police have laid more charges against Monsignor Robert Borne, who was already facing six sex-related assault charges involving three alleged victims.

The monsignor, who is appearing in criminal court in Pembroke today, is charged with an additional two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in relation to two new people.

In April, the Ontario Provincial Police, Renfrew County Crime Unit, charged the 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995 in relation to three victims.

In June 2009, the OPP began an investigation into further complaints that Monsignor Borne had sexually assaulted other teenage boys. As a result of the initial investigation, other people have come forward.

The well-known local Roman Catholic priest, is a native of Pembroke.

He was arrested June 5 when he turned himself in at the Renfrew detachment.

At the time of the monsignor’s arrest, Bishop Michael Mulhall of the Diocese of Pembroke, issued a statement concerning the charges brought against Msgr. Borne.

“As Bishop of the Diocese of Pembroke, I wish to express my deep concern, and that of the diocese, for the people who have brought forth allegations against Msgr. Borne. Our commitment is to work in an open and co-operative way with the civil authorities as they endeavor to unfold the truth. Many persons are deeply troubled by these events and we will do all we can to express a spirit of honesty and compassion to all concerned. Our mission as a church is to build a supportive community. We wish to allow this mandate to inspire us as to how we can assist all persons affected by these matters,” he said in the statement.

In 2003, Msgr. Borne became pastor of St. James Parish in Eganville, and Nativity of Our Lady Mission in Golden Lake. On September 1, 2004 he was appointed priest coordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.

According to Pembroke Diocese spokesman Bruce Pappin, Msgr. Borne was transferred to the diocese office in September 2008, and assigned administrative duties. The diocese said he has not being saying mass publicly since the allegations came forward.

According to police, they began their investigation in January 2008 after receiving a complaint that Msgr. Borne had sexually assaulted a then, teenage boy while he visiting with Msgr. Borne. The statement issued by police said that the other victims were identified as a result of the initial investigation.

Monsignor Borne was ordained on April 20, 1974. He was a curate in Mattawa between 1974 and 1975.

From 1975 until 2003 he served in a number of administrative roles including chancellor of the diocese, secretary to the bishop and curate at Our Lady of Lourdes.

He became pastor at St. James in Eganville in 2003.

Detective Const. Jamie Trader and Detective Const. Lori Birmingham, under the direction of the OPP Detective Inspector Jeff Bahm, Criminal Investigation Branch, are continuing their investigation.

With files from Anthony Dixon

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Borne case cuts deepest in diocese

Police receive new complaint against Pembroke monsignor

Ottawa Citizen

08 July 2009

Kelly Egan

Of the 52 priests listed in the clerical directory at the Archdiocese of Pembroke, four are conferred the honorary title of monsignor.

One is retired. One is serving a jail term. One has just been charged with sexual assault.

These are, indeed, trying times for Roman Catholics in the upper Ottawa Valley.

Nor is it over. The OPP said Tuesday that new information, in the form of a fresh complaint, had been received in the ongoing matter of Msgr. Robert Borne.

This is the case that has cut the deepest.

Msgr. Borne, 60, was charged in April with gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in connection with three alleged victims between 1977 and 1995.

He was not just another priest.

Part of a well-known Pembroke family, Msgr. Borne was sometimes called the bishop’s right-hand man.

For many years, he was the parish priest at St. James Church in Eganville, taking over at the end of 1995 in the aftermath of a terrible fire, a seminal event in the life of the village.

As part of his duties, he was also pastor for a mission church, Nativity of Mary, in Golden Lake.

He later took over a small parish in Cormac, also helping to organize the annual pilgrimage to a shrine dedicated to St. Ann every July. It attracted hundreds and was often featured on the front pages of weekly newspapers.

Msgr. Borne also served as a bishop’s assistant and with the chancery office in Pembroke.

All of which to say this: As a cleric, he was here, there and everywhere in the religious life of Renfrew County.

And he is accused of breaking trust in a way that shakes the foundation of people’s faith.

One would have thought it would be an opportunity for Bishop Michael Mulhall to address the parishioners of St. James — indeed, all Renfrew County Catholics — and the broader community.

He has chosen not to. Instead, early on, he released a prepared statement.

“As Bishop of the Diocese of Pembroke, I wish to express my deep concern, and that of the diocese, for the people who have brought forth allegations against Msgr. Borne. Our commitment is to work in an open and cooperative way with the civil authorities as they endeavor to unfold the truth. Many persons are deeply troubled by these events and we will do all we can to express a spirit of honesty and compassion to all concerned.

“Our mission as a church is to build a supportive community. We wish to allow this mandate to inspire us as to how we can assist all persons affected by these matters.”

As recently as Tuesday, he has chosen not to comment. This is an unwise option, and here’s why.

Setting aside Msgr. Borne’s matter, history has taught us that secrecy is a big part of these cases. Victims take a long time to come forward. There is guilt and shame, misplaced. So often, the church knew something.

When was the last time you heard a bishop say publicly, in effect: “We messed this up, in a major way. We broke a sacred trust. Any other victims, please come forward. All we can do is try to make it right”?

Instead, with rare exceptions, there is silence.

Rob Talach is a lawyer in London, Ont., with extensive experience in dealing with the victims of abuse at the hands of clerics.

He represents 15 victims of Msgr. Bernard Prince, 73, a priest attached to the Pembroke diocese who was sentenced to four years in prison in January 2008. He was convicted of molesting 13 young boys over a 20-year period.

Talach says there is a disconnect between how the church reacts in a pastoral setting to its parishioners and how the institution reacts to allegations — criminal or civil — of abuse. “If I sued IBM, I’d probably get about the same reaction as when I sue the church.”

He agreed that bishops have many options in reaching out to Catholics without jeopardizing criminal cases. “I don’t know about this bishop, but generally, they haven’t handled it very effectively.”

The loss of trust is at the heart of these cases, Talach says. It is a common theme among victims.

“The breach of trust is one of the most paramount things. That is a very difficult thing to get through life with,” he said. “You don’t trust other people at all. Your personal relationships are impacted, your work, your education is affected. They clearly lose their belief in a higher being.”

Trust is a thing built brick by brick. It doesn’t happen overnight, though it can be lost that quickly.

But, surely, the first step in rebuilding is communicating, not hiding behind thick stone walls.

Contact Kelly Egan at 613-726-5896 or by e-mail at kegan@thecitizen.canwest.com

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 06 June 2009:  BLOG: Another One!

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Ontario priest accused of sexual assaults

CBC News

Last Updated: Saturday, June 6, 2009 | 2:51 PM ET

The Canadian Press

A Roman Catholic priest from eastern Ontario is facing several charges after three people alleged they were sexually assaulted.

Monsignor Robert Borne, 60, of Pembroke is accused of two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in relation to three alleged victims.

Borne was charged in late April but only turned himself in to provincial police on Friday.

The incidents are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995.

Police say their investigation began with a single complaint in January 2008.

Borne will appear in a Pembroke court July 7.

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Monsignor Robert Borne charged with sexual assault

St. James Parish priest released from custody

05 June 2009

Posted By Debbie Robinson

A well-known Roman Catholic priest has been accused of sexually assaulting three victims.

Exactly 25 years to the day of his ordination, Monsignor Robert Borne, a Pembroke native, was charged in relation to incidents alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995.

In January 2008, the Ontario Provincial Police, Renfrew County Crime Unit, began an investigation into a complaint that Monsignor Borne had sexually assaulted a then, teenage boy, while he was visiting with Borne.

As a result of the initial investigation, other victims have been identified.

On April 20, 2009, Borne was charged with two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in relation to three victims.

He was arrested today, June 5, and was released on conditions. He is to appear in Pembroke court on July 7, 2009.

351 Responses to Borne: Monsignor Robert Borne

  1. Tim says:

    I have observed this site for some years, and at first appreciated the stated goals as being necessary. They still are.
    But, a very disturbing trend has taken over. Now it seems to have become–Let us get the bastards at all costs !

    When does dissent change to decent? when it copies the following train of thought plus action/

    A says I do not like this
    B says I agree with A.
    C says I agree with both of you but you do not go far enough.
    D says let us nail them to the Cross!
    E says not just yet. Let us put out more reasoning for non-acceptance.
    F says Yes, and let it increase in verbosity as we go.
    G, H, I J,K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, all work diligently at this method.

    After a time, S says Great work my followers, now let us SERVE NO Longer! FOR I WILL SERVE NO LONGER, and you my followers are caught in my trap. Advocate non-forgiveness for that will go against HIM who said we must forgive. Let us show HIM our independence. Let us go with the flow controlled by hate. It is the easier way.
    S stands of course for Satan ! Do we stand for JESUS?
    I will take HIS Word over Satan any day! Tim

  2. Lina says:

    “Michael Says: in Post# 72

    Lina’s posts always looked like she writes after getting drunk. This post(#72) clearly tells that she is. She posted this comment after 10pm and the words clearly tells that she is confused or drunk…”

    Those words I posted in Post# 72 were from Kay Ebeling herself from her website.

    As for calling me confuse or drunk……Michael…whatever so say CLOSET CASE!!!!

    Lina

  3. Sylvia says:

    Michael, as Lina says, her (post #72) is quoting Key Ebeling. I just put the quote in block quotes for clarity.

    Larry Green, do you think Kay means that she doesn’t care about the rapes? I could be wrong, but I took it that she meant that she personally doesn’t need to hear “the salacious details.”

    I for one think that the general public does need to be educated by hearing some of the “salacious details.” However, I also believe that there comes a point for all of those familiar with child sex abuse that the details are irrelevant, but only in the sense of understanding that they are so eerily the same, as is the damage wrought.

    Tim, how do you read Matthew 18:6-7

    But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.

    Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh.

    I believe in forgiveness yes, but not without or at the expense of justice. And not when it allows a clerical molester to run amok from parish to parish, diocese to diocese and/or country to country.

  4. Lina says:

    Tim,

    An interesting quote & a favorite one of mine from St.Teresa of Avila (Doctor of the Church).

    “I’m much more afraid of people who are afraid of the devil than the devil himself.”

    Lina

  5. Tim says:

    Sylvia, It is not ME who is told to put the millstone around the kneck.
    Then there is another quote which seems to be lost in all of this Judge not last Ye youself be judges!
    Then another, Vengence is Mine saith The Lord.
    Then another, You must forgive seven times sevent-seven.
    Then the whole Truth.

    The Church belongs to GOD. All of the nonsense which has crept into modernists who say — WE are the Church- will find out one day the Church belongs to GOD.
    And when HE comes again, will HE find Faith upon the Earth?

    And Lina, you , being a quoter of Saints, would surely know that Teresa of Avila, along with her whole Order, were misled by a sister-nun for many years. They only found out on her death-bed that , with the aid of Satan she had faked having the Sigmata.
    So, Teresa of Avila, who is a favourite of mine, just like other Saints, was not always right.
    Tim

  6. Sylvia says:

    I didn’t mean to infer that it is you Tim who is told to wear a millstone around the neck. I think the verse speaks for itself.

    The ultimate justice will be rendered by God. Meanwhile there must be justice done on this earth. In the case of molesters, it is essential that children are protected.

  7. Larry Green says:

    Yes Sylvia I do believe that ” I honestly don’t even care anymore about the individual rapes,” means she dosn’t care about individual rapes and if I am wrong and she dosn’t mean what she said , it dosn’t make the fact that she said it any individual who has been raped any less offensive.
    Furthermore the whole point of her arguement was to measure and compare the wounds and the “pain” of those who have been treated unjustly and who have been victims for whatever reason. Every human being experiences and reacts to trauma and loss differently for many reasons. It is ludicrous to believe that human pain and suffering can be measured solely on the basis of the type of offence.
    There is no “normal” rule or way of feeling and responding to any crisis.
    Forgivevness is like a key to the prison door for anyone who has been violated.There are neccessary stages before one can even begin to forgive and the time is different for everyone. However there is no “BUT.” Forgiveness DOES heal and it sets the victim free at last. In your quest and for anyone who struggles for justice it is important to bear in mind that justice is restored only if the opressors “gain” is taken away and the victims “loss” is restored (these are inadequate terms used when considering restoritive justice when the loss does not involve material things but the only way we have). It is a great loss if/when an oppressor robs another human being of their dignity and their ability to forgive, for we are born with both.
    No one can possibly truthfully claim that it is a desire to achieve justice that motivates them to march toward it if their primary goal is to get revenge because true justice involves two sides equally.
    There can be absoluteley no “but” when it comes to stressing and nurturing the ability to forgive.

  8. Lina says:

    Post #80 of Tim

    I’m not going to dispute the mystical writings of St. Teresa of Avila.

    I will say you may be giving too much credit to the demons & devil(s). People are responsible for their own actions. Yes, there may be some with mental disorders. Nevertheless, a person is responsible & accountable for his (or her) criminal actions. That also includes the ones (enablers) that helped & covered them up.

    Here are some interesting words from Roman Catholic priest who was molested himself by a priest when he was young.

    “Members of the Hierarchy say they are responsible.

    The hierarchy of the church claim to be responsible. I agree —

    * they are responsible for denying justice to those who approached them decades ago with reports of abuse;
    * they are responsible for telling victims and their families to “be quiet” and cause scandal to the church;
    * they are responsible for the lives of those who could not endure the shame of abuse and who succumbed to drugs, alcohol, and suicide;
    * and finally, they are responsible for getting away with murder!

    While they claim to be responsible, they have failed to take responsibility for their actions of the past decades; they have failed to provide justice to victims; they have ostracized predatory pedophile priests, but have failed to offer their own resignations for the scandal THEY have brought upon the church.

    http://blog.clergysexualabusevictims.com/

    Another statement to be read carefully..by Rev. James Moran.

    “Many people think that Survivors/Victims are out to ruin the church. That is far from the truth. All victims ask for is justice. The bishops yell and scream “forgiveness” — but they forget that forgiveness also requires atonement/justice. Victims are not granted justice. The bishops do not understand the lifelong injury that is inflicted on a victim of clergy abuse. All they are concerned about is the checkbook.”

    http://www.clergysexualabusevictims.com/Writings.html

    Lina

  9. Sylvia says:

    I agree Larry re pain. Pain is personal and relative only to our own past experinces of pain. I personally believe that the impact of the abuse is a different matter. Not all sex abuse victims lose their faith – it is the rare victim of clerical sexual abuse who does not.

    As for forgiveness and justice. Does seeking justice through the courts constitute seeking revenge? I think not. One can both seek justice through the courts AND forgive – the latter, as you say, in the victims’ own time.

    Pope Benedict himself said that the Church has a “profound need” to “learn forgiveness and also the necessity of justice.” “Forgiveness does not replace justice.”

    There is a close correlation between forgiveness and justice. For example, the following para from My Catholic Faith (1963) falls under a chapter entitled “Our Enemies and Our Friends” and comes on the heels of sub-sections on loving our enemies and forgiveness:

    When we are seriously injured, as in our propety, honor or reputation, we are not forbidden to claim our just rights before lawful authority. Often justice requires us to do this, in order to prevent greater abuses.

    “In order to prevent greater abuses.”

    I have serious concerns regarding all of the talk of forgiveness of child molesters in general and clerical molesters in particular which seem to negate the duty to prevent greater abuses, or, I would add, further abuse. I don’t see how that can be construed as seeking revenge. Nor do I see how it negates the need to forgive

    One more para, this one an addendum to the above:

    Forgiveness of our enemy does not require initimate association, It is enough that we treat him with civility, and help him if he is in need.

    (all emphasis in quotes in the original)

  10. Tim says:

    Sylvia, I never took it to mean I should have the millstone. I was trying, poorly I admit, to say that GOD is NOT saying that I or anyone else is to put the millstone there.
    One thread is missing in this debate which might add some clarity.
    To Love someone is a decision, not a feeling- it begins with a decision.
    To forgive someone is also a decision, as to hate someone is also a decision. Tim

  11. Mike Blum says:

    To forgive someone is one thing but to forgive the powers that could have prevented the pain and hid the pain and denied it may have even happened, that is what I have issue with. Even if I was to forgive (not there yet) the pain that this has given loved ones, family, friends and in many cases communities branches out rather far.
    Back to “someone”, when you get dragged through the legal system for years when the outcome was always going to be guilty, it makes it that much harder to forgive.
    Just my personal take on things and I “WILL” find healing and it does not have to be through forgiveness.
    Mike

  12. Larry Green says:

    Sylvia, you have misunderstood my point.I have never implied that to seek justice through the courts is mereley an act of revenge. I’ll reiterate explicitly that true justice in volves, among other things, helping the victim to restore what they have lost. One cannot truthfully claim to be a participant in such a noble cause such as the pursuit of justice if the motive springs primarily from a desire to get revenge. Justice is not one sided. If you consider the principle that forgiveness is healing and healing is good for the victim,and if one seeks justice for the sake of the victim then there is no reasonable grounds to deny that a vital part of that activity should involve cultivating an enviroment to foster and nurture an attitude of forgiveness.
    The act of forgiving liberates the victim not the offender. The offender must experience receiving forgiveness for that to happen. They are two seperate experiences.
    As for justice through the legal system , it does and rightly so involve an element of revenge.
    As for the implcation that the loss of ones faith is more painfull than other losses is really for no one to judge.

  13. Sylvia says:

    I think we may go in ever decreasing circles here.

    Larry, several points

    (1) First, apologies if I misunderstood. Forgive me.

    (2) I must disagree with your statment that justice through the legal system involves an element of revenge. The law of the land is there to maintain good order and direct us toward the common good. The state criminlizes acts which are deemed to be detrimental to individuals and/or society as whole. There are penalities for violating those laws. Those who report their molester to the police are asking the court to uphold the law.

    That is not revenge. It’s the execution of justice (on this earth) I think lawyers and judges would go ballistic to hear it called revenge.

    If I witness and report a murder, is my reporting the murder and providing a description of the murderer an act of revenge against the murderer? I don’t think so. We can’t have murderers running loose, any more than we can have molesters running loose. Both are detrimental to good order and the common good.

    Problems arise when the system breaks down.

    (3) Is there a principal that forgiveness is healing? I don’t know. I do know that we as Catholics and as Christians are called to forgive, “as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

    (4) No, no no, Larry. I didn’t say that the loss of faith is more painful than other losses. I said:

    I personally believe that the impact of the abuse is a different matter. Not all sex abuse victims lose their faith – it is the rare victim of clerical sexual abuse who does not.

    I wasn’t gauging the pain. I can’t do that. No one can. I was referencing the fact that most victims of clerical sexual abuse lose their faith.

    Mike Blum, it’s so true, so many have been hurt and so many are hurting. Healing will come. So will the ability to forgive. It takes time. Right now you are still striving to see justice done. It’s been quite a journey, hasn’t it?

  14. Larry Green says:

    Sylvia, it is certainly a misrepresetation to assert that ” justice through the legal system involves an element of revenge” means that the legal justice is based on revenge.
    When a someone has been convicted that the judge must consider a number of factors that will guide him in his objective deliberations on sentencing appropriate. There are several which include the safety of the people in general , and among others he also has the legal authority to consider revenge.
    You seem to insist on drawing a conclusion from my arguement that either we help the victim come to a place of forgiveness or we bring the offender before the courts.There is no premise in my arguement that would lead to any conclusion of such false dilema. Quite the contrary , I believe firmly that both are neccessary.
    No matter what the abuse entails the loss and the sense of loss is different for every individual , if you are not implying that the loss in the cases of clerical sexual abuse is most severe or in some way more deserving of greater concern, why is it you find it more worthy of mention?
    Human beings are encouraged to forgive by those who offer sound psychological councelling because it has long been acknowleged to be a fundamental principle of healing.
    Christians acknowledge forgiveness to be a fundamental principle of healing not only because Jesus Himself healed through forgiving ,He is the principle within from which our acts of forgiveness originate.

  15. Sylvia says:

    We’re going to talk each other in circles here Larry, parsing each other’s every word to try to prove our point or disprove the other’s. I’m not so sure that we disagree on some points, but I sense we’re going nowhere.

    I’ve said my piece. I will bow out 🙂

  16. Larry Green says:

    I will never dispute the fact that you are a very respectful and good person.
    Thank you Sylvia!

  17. Sylvia says:

    Thanks Larry. You brought a little spice to the discussion 🙂

  18. Sylvia says:

    Lina, your post #83 was ear-marked as spam. I just came across it now. Apologies for the delay in getting it up.

  19. Tim says:

    Lina\s #83. It is difficult to be sure what was meant to be in quotes, and what was Lina’s opinion.
    Nevertheless, whethe it be some Priest or Lina who makes the comment (some Priests get away with murder) that person is an idiot. Tim

  20. Lina says:

    Tim,
    Concerning Post #83
    The quote’s from the opening quotation marks to the closing belong to this Priest (Rev. James Moran).

    Except the line of:*Another statement to be read carefully..by Rev. James Moran*.

    I admit it’s a long read but it is all there (the info) at this priest’s website if any one cares to check it out if it’s real (or fake).

    http://blog.clergysexualabusevictims.com/

    http://www.clergysexualabusevictims.com/Writings.html

    In a nutshell this priest is saying the same thing what folks were saying here on this (SYLVIA) thread site, clergy victims & their supporters throughout the years & still do so.

    The Catholic Church do not necessary help out or come clean until they are force by the law of the land to do so. Even then, they find all kinds of loop holes to get out of seeing true justice carried out.

    The Church would continue to cover up numerous criminal activities of their priests & themselves if not for the brave & courageous clergy abuse victims that come forward & reveal what happened to them. —-What about those eons of victims that never came forward or got justice, only God knows who they are—.

    There is a big difference between being loyal to God & not following leaders of the Catholic Church that cover-up those crimes within.

    As for passing judgment on those (the victims) who seek the courts for justice because the Catholic Church chose to ignore them for whatever reason. It is just too bad if you are being disturb from your Catholic comfy lazy boy chair. The victims will not stop coming forward just because it bothers you or supposedly hurts the image of the Catholic Church.

    I will go further…it’s time the churches, the Roman Catholic churches be taxed….that is where I’m at. If that makes me a cafeteria Catholic so be it.

    Please do not come back to me with your quotes from the Bible. Keep thy religion to thy self.

    I’m really pi$$ed off today!

    Lina

    • Brunelle Brenda says:

      Lina, I wish I could copy and paste this message to the Fr. Fallona site.

      I could not have expressed my feelings that are shared with you so clearly.

      Cafeteria Catholic, I love it…..

      I would much rather be called that than a pedophile catholic, or an enabler to pedophile behaviour within the church. those who choose to remain silent and not report abuse, are just as guilty as the perpetrator themself.

      I think we have cafeteria priest, when they decide when to turn the other cheek and walk away…. Or when they stand high on their horse and command respect for marriage, the poor, the sick etc.

      funny how they pick and choose when to stand up and when to shut up.

      bb

      • Lina says:

        Thank you Brenda for taking the time to respond to my post.

        Posters here pretty know where I stand & that is with the victims.

        I try to post with quality substance views/opinions instead of posting in quantity with no substance.

        I had my bad moments here as well at another site.

        Many at time….there is heated moments & disagreements which is very normal.
        Poor Sylvia…at times she had to set her foot down here (rightly so) & tell us we are derailing from the topic or subject.

        From what I read from your posts Brenda Brunelle you are one gutsy, classy lady.

        I’m so happy you are surrounded with an awesome support group of folks……from your hubby, mother, family & so many good friends.

        Sincerely,
        Lina

  21. Sylvia says:

    There are a series of blogs on the Father Fallona site which now relate to the Pembroke Diocese and the Father Borne trial. I don’t know how to expedite this, but could those with comments related to Borne and Pembroke start blogging here so we can keep the threads relevant to the page?

    The relevant comments to this page begin here: http://www.theinquiry.ca/wordpress/charged/fallona-father-michael-fallona-csb/comment-page-1/#comment-113854

  22. Sylvia says:

    Larry, the priest Father Moyle is referring to is Father Lorne Whalen. He is the priest who sued me – $36,000 and six years later the suit against me was dropped.

    Father, I know through you that Bishop Smith apparently took action after hearing your report. I commend you for doing what you could at that time. My problem as far as “the Diocese” is concerned is that there were serious issues with Whalen well before that and nothing was done, certainly not by Bishop Brendan O’Brien, or by Bishop Wingle who took him in when in fact the man should never have been ordained.

  23. Sylvia: No argument from me! I remember his ordination well. When Bishop Windle made remarks that could be interpreted as meaning that the Seminary recommended Whalen for ordination, all of us who were studying there at the time were taken aside by our professors and told that he was must definitely NOT recommended for ordination.

    He was one of two men that he ordained under similar circumstances and both of them are now out of the priesthood (thank God!), neither by their own choosing.

    Fr. Tim

  24. Larry Green says:

    Sylvia
    I apologize for the confusion resulting from cross threads – it was not intentional , I was in a bit of a rush and got caught up in the moment.
    Thank you Sylvia for the information.
    Tim
    I appreciate your candid response, thank you . It is reassuring for me and although a particular premise is weak support for any universal claim , I commend you for the exemplary action you have taken in these cases and hopefully ( for the sake of our children and for the sake of their own souls) you will inspire more clergy to conduct themselves in the same manner.

    • Sylvia says:

      Not your fault at all Larry – it’s all part of the number of threads a person can post on and what can happen when an exchange on one crosses over into another. One or two comment is no problem, but then there is a point where they really should be over on another thread or people looking for them will never find them.

  25. Tim says:

    Larry, you must have meant FATHER TIM. That would be respectful, Tim

    • Michael says:

      Tim,
      Please do not expect respectful words, for that matter for anyone, from Larry, except who pat on his back. Even if he call father Tim, just ‘Tim’ he still is a priest and all who know him call him Father Tim.
      It seems he has no respect for himself or anyone. I have not seen anything that he has written positive on this site.

  26. Larry Green says:

    I understand Sylvia. Thank You.

  27. Larry Green says:

    There is a Saturday pattern emergimg.

  28. Lina says:

    Anybody who lives in the “Diocese of Pembroke” or who are just interested to know, there is an evening planned with Bishop Michael Mulhall.

    Discussing current issues in the Church, Diocese, & the Community-at-large.

    This will take place on Tuesday, February 22nd at 7:00 p.m. at the Knights of Columbus Hall,
    at 170 Ellis Avenue, Pembroke ON, K8A 2H9

    EVERYONE is invited to attend this event which is sponsored by the Knights of Columbus Council 1531.
    —————————–
    If I recall correctly this Knights Of Columbus Hall use to be a Catholic elementary school called St. Patrick’s long time ago.

    If you are able to attend the date is Tuesday, February 22nd.

    Lina

  29. Larry Green says:

    Your recollection of St. Pat’s elementary school is correct Lina , I went there for grade 6.
    I’m sure I’ll have more important things to do that night than sitting there listening to the bishop’s propaganda for an evening. Mind you, almost anything I could think of would count as ” more important things to do .”
    There is a bit of irony in the fact that the most recent comment I read prior to yours had a very calm and peaceful effect on me and now the mere mention of this ” evening with the bishop” evokes such disturbance and anger in me. ( no fault of yours Lina) I would not suggest anyone attend anticipating any earnest desire on the part of the church to place the needs of others above the commitment of protecting ‘ church image’.
    You can be sure that whatever he has to say is motivated and will be aimed at damage control and will be cleverly and intrinsically divertive. They are trained and skilled very well at implementing this whole ‘ NEW’ tactic of insidious and subtle propaganda. We need to be attentively aware more than ever through this new phase in the churches downward path.
    I am truly sorry to those who perceive what I say to be offensive but it is my perception of the truth and there is no cause more worthy than to speak the truth for it’s own sake and there is no need for courage other than to face the truth.

  30. prima facie says:

    BASED ON LINA’S INFORMATION and LARRY GREEN’S POST:

    I believe Larry Green is accurate, even if only based on (perpectives) relating to the historical practices of cover-up, damage control and the like.
    I believe if the meeting is to discuss sexual abuse allegations, the “Pembroke Priests” or other very “sensitive topics”, the meeting should be convened in a more “neutral” site (perceptions, fear, anger, etc). If the meeting is to discuss the “year end finances”, then “The Hall” seems the proper venue. I mean, hasn’t Larry Green disclosed (in his last posting) his perceptions and why he currently does not intend on appearing? How many others feel the same way, but will not express it, as Larry Green has?
    When I organized meetings, seminars, lectures, etc., “the venue-site” was carefully considered, for various reasons. There are significant advantages to being the “home team”, so-to-speak.
    It’s too bad the “agenda” has not been disclosed or whether or not the public who attend will be permitted to ask questions, provide opinion or engage the clergy/or their agents. IT has not been clarified whether EVERYONE HAS BEEN INVITED to attend,…. to be silent/listen, or if the public can engage the clergy and/or their agents in a question and answer session.
    This would be a great opportunity to gain confidence in some of the public. For example, provide an agenda; invite the press; provide a neutral site, allow the public to engage clergy and/or their agents; invite the public to submit email questions in advance that will be adequately addressed during the meeting.

    I see this as a brilliant opportunity for “concerned citizens” to attend on their own or to organize in small groups and engage clergy and/or their agents, about very serious concerns. Autocratic leadership, openly expressed or implied “rules” instilling fear or implying the public must be silent, has no place here.

    The following is from a university curriculum on “Interpersonal Effectiveness and Self-Actualization”.
    “Anger” is a very significant feeling/emotion; one that should not be denied, rationalized or minimized. Unfortunately, “anger” has been given a bad reputation because it is often misunderstood and all too often incorrectly associated with ALL overt, physical violence.
    To the contrary, I believe understanding “anger” and expressing our anger constructively, can go a long way in helping us to lead healthier, more productive and satisfying lives. And that means, when applicable, we must FIRST be able to “recognize and acknowledge when we are angry.”
    When, understood and managed appropriately, “anger” can be a very beneficial learning “tool”.
    I believe that as a result of understanding the nature and value of “anger”, including the destructive/constructive consequences, any human can enrich their personal lives and improve their interpersonal effectiveness.
    If understood and managed appropriately, “anger” has great value and can be very constructive.

    “Being aware of our feelings is an important and somewhat difficult task. Many of us were taught to hide our feelings. We learned to pretend we did not have them. We were even encouraged to take evasive or alternate means to avoid acknowledging them. Without clearly understanding our feelings/emotions and how to manage them constructively, anything else is simply, a temporary fix, that will eventually serve its temporary purpose, “run out of steam” and “expire”; often causing more harm than good.
    This is especially true of feelings we consider negative, such as anger. We often keep our anger inside and act as if it were not there. We deny to ourselves that we are angry.” In order to be aware of our anger and express it appropriately, we must understand what makes us angry.”
    “Everyone gets angry sometimes. Anger is a normal emotion.”

    • Lina says:

      prima facie,
      I was elated when I read this sentence in a church bulletin:
      ‘Discussing current issues in the Church, Diocese, & the Community-at-large. ‘

      I gather what I thought the evening was going to be about, is not to be, it is wishful thinking on my part.
      It will not be about in the best interest for the victims. It will be about damage control.

      prima facie…the platform you spoke of a neutral place etc… that would be more productive.

      Thanks,
      Lina

  31. Larry Green says:

    Prima Facie

    Your support is very much appreciated prima facie.
    I most certainly agree with you in that ‘ anger ‘ like any other emotion has it’s place and they are very much a natural portion of our ‘ whole’ being. I think though that we should always try to remain cognizant of the fact that it springs from the lower part of our being ( I.e. the genus to which we belong) unlike the faculty of reason which sets us higher and defines us as humans. While anger or fear or indeed anything that springs from our passionate nature does impel to take the appropriate action in a given situation , they can also inhibit our ability to reason properly. They can also become a source of inner pain that stifle healing and fester wounds. I at the same time agree with you as you imply that un-expressed emotion tends to have the same stifling and injurious effect on the soul.
    There for certain can be no black and white solution to the individual problem of balance between passion and reason. The ‘courage’ requested from God in the serenity prayer though I think is that virtue we need to persistently move forward in our struggle for justice – as it is based on principle- even long after the fire of passion has been extinguished.
    You have given a lot to think about with your comment above Prima Facie. Thank You

  32. John Mac Donald says:

    Larry…..I have run the gamut with the emotion ANGER. I have let it beat me down, but I have also learned to use it constructively. A few years back I attended a confrence for survivors in Toronto. During that conference I held a seminar titled “Using anger as a tool, not a weapon”. It was one of the highest attended seminars at the conference. I am not saying this to recieve a pat on the back, I am saying it to emphasize that we ALL need to know how to “use” that anger, because believe me I am FAR from an expert on the subject, I am just someone trying to learn.

    I just posted a comment on the “William Hod Marshall” string as an example as to what “WE” can do with “THAT ANGER” and turn it to something that may be positive. Whether or not I get a response is not as important as “THAT ANGER” not sitting with me anymore. ALL that I can do is try to affect change.

    John

    • Larry Green says:

      John Mac Donald
      When I said “I most certainly agree with you in that ‘ anger ‘ ” I don’t mean THAT ANGER . The statement should be understood to mean I agree with prima facie in the implication which claims anger as it is an emotion is very natural and normal and needs to be expressed and the same holds true for the rest of our emotions.
      The “ WE “ refers to human beings. We are all human and we are therefore all familiar with the experience of emotion .
      Forgive me if I’m wrong, but the tone of your response has the appearance and reflection of a rather hostile attitude toward my reply to prima facie. I have expressed nothing in opposition to what prima facie has said nor was there any disagreement or opposition to the espoused view you yourself articulated afterward. I think we – every individual – all have a deep desire to be accepted as being worth as much as the rest. To have this very fundamental need overlooked and to have ones contribution -in whatever way it may happen to be – rejected as having little or no value can lead one into a very lonely place of hurt . Not everyone has the anger to burry or use as a tool. Some of us simply burry our pain. We are unique in our response to crisis.
      You have certainly accomplished many good things John and for those I commend you . I have no doubt that you will continue to succeed in the accomplishments of many more and for those I support you.

  33. Larry Green says:

    Thank You John !

  34. Larry Green says:

    Thank You too Sylvia !

  35. Lina says:

    I read Fr. Tim Moyle comment at his website today:

    http://frtimmoyle.blogspot.com/

    ” In Grand Jury’s Wake, “We Have Fallen Short” http://frtimmoyle.blogspot.com/

    Fr. Tim said:

    “”SIGH… When will the Bishop’s finally get it through their heads that they can no longer rely on ‘in-house’ investigations of sexual abuse allegations. The protocol in Canada and the USA is supposed to include an automatic referral to civil authorities to investigate. Yes, some priests will fall victim to false allegations, but we should have enough faith in the justice system that the names of anyone falsely accused will be cleared.

    Besides this, the Church has no one but itself to blame for putting priests in this dangerous position. If the Bishops would have dealt with these issues properly in the first place, innocent priests would not be in such a tenuous position.

    It is not the priests who are letting the Church down. It’s the Bishops!””
    ___________________

    Am I missing something in Fr. Tim’s comment/opinion here?

    There is something that I just can’t put my finger on.

    Maybe it’s simply as I just do not totally trust him. I want to…but my conscience tells me to proceed with CAUTION!

    Lina

  36. Lina says:

    I need to thread carefully here because the person who spoke to me is very nervous & fearful. This person has very good reasons to feel this way!

    Many years ago there was this Bishop in the Sudbury/Northbay area in Ontario.
    He asked a young Deacon to look into a delicate situation & get some information on a certain priest, I will call him Father X.

    The young man did what the Bishop ask of him. Let’s say it was not looking good for Father X.
    The information that was accumulated pretty well told the sad story that Father X was a molester.
    The Deacon was ask to turned over all the papers to the Bishop. The Bishop got this delicate situation with Father X. taken cared of.

    The Bishop’s friend that helped him was Bishop Joseph Raymond Windle (Pembroke) .

    I do not know what these two bishops did with Father X or those information papers.
    What I do know is the Father X. is dead & the real name of Father X. is not found on Sylvia’s ACCUSED list.

    Bishop Joseph Raymond Windle, D.D.
    Nominated Auxiliary Bishop of Ottawa: November 24, 1960
    Consecrated: January 18, 1961
    Named Coadjutor Bishop of Pembroke: January 23, 1969
    Named Bishop of Pembroke: February 15, 1971
    Retired: May 5, 1993
    Died: September 24, 1997

    • Larry Green says:

      Lina , is the person that you refer to as fearfull and nervous afraid for theirs or someones physical safety ?
      I’m not sure if you are implying that Borne was the deacon in question or are you saying because of his close connection with windle , windle would have confided with borne the allegations he recieved about Fr X ?

      • Lina says:

        Larry,
        Borne was not that Deacon (or seminarian) that was getting info on Father X, I repeat Borne is NOT that Deacon.

        This deacon was told Fr. X. was not his concern (not his business) & to stay out of it.

        You need to take into account that the person that shared this info with me is giving their own views & perceptions. I have no solid proof. That is why I need to thread carefully.

        I do know this clergyman is a close relative of this person who loves him very much. He has paid dearly for trying to do the right thing.

        As for the late Bishop Windle.
        Just go over Father Borne’s resume here at this site. It is very outstanding. How Borne became a young Monsignor so quickly.

        Lina

        • Larry Green says:

          For sure it was well known to everyone at the time Lina that the bishop windle favoured borne over any other priest.
          I always found windle to be totally oblivious to the real world. He also appeared to me to be a mock modest individual intent on projecting a very holy and humble image. I may be the only person in the diocese that feels that way but it`s my truth.

  37. Lina says:

    The person who spoke to me…is surprise Borne’s case is taking so long.

    It was strongly suggested to me hush money was already paid out in the past. (maybe to other victims? Did Bishop Windle knew about it?)

    So that is why (I’m speculating) that there must had been some kind of bond, a link between Borne & the late Bishop Windle.
    That’s why I cannot shake that feeling that Monsignor Robert Borne knows loads of information & sadly this information probably will never see the light of day.

    So if Borne’s problems magically goes away all those dark secrets can stay buried?

    I pray that all Borne’s victims that they keep their courage up!

    Lina

  38. Lina says:

    I reach the limit for posting for this day.

    We all know it takes a long time for victims of clergy abuse to come forward. Years & years.

    What I’m starting see now is the flip side. I mean, folks who have information but never spoke up before. They have this stuff buried deeply & for whatever reason kept quiet about it because of….guilt, fear, not wanting to feel disloyal to the Catholic Church, even believe the info they have is not important, & so on.

    I pray we will see more people feeling free to talk about what they know & come forward & this may help many victims.

    I remember years ago I went to Cormac ON the for the pilgrimage in honor of St. Anne.

    While I was there I met this lady who was sad to hear about Monsignor Robert Borne. We all needed to pray for all in this situation she said.
    Before she went away she left this odd comment to me,…. ‘I wish I went to the police years ago.’

    I did not understand her but now I believe this lady KNEW something about Borne & felt guilty she should had went to the police.

    This is what I meant, the proof & information is out there, it’s trying to encourage these folks to not be afraid to speak up, come forward with their valid information.

    Lina

  39. Lina says:

    From the Diocese of Pembroke ON…..my husband & I were at that evening with Bishop Michael Mulhall in Pembroke at Knight Of Columbus Hall on Tuesday 22nd of February.

    I was never at something like this before. There were all older folks there except for 1 or maybe 2 young adults.

    The atmosphere was cautious & polite. That hall was full.

    The Bishop spoke about 35 minutes. 1 minute & it could be less than that was given to victims of clergy abuse. I am paraphrasing what the Bishop said. (He came across with some kind of force sincere.)

    We all know the problem going on about the clergy scandals out there. What happened to these victims is wrong & should not had happened. It’s terrible. Again he repeated something to the effect it was wrong. To pray for healing & good priests.

    If you had coughed & clear your throat you would had miss what he said.

    My hubby said it was a bullsh$$t session while I gave the name of it a good public relations (P.R.) session.

    It was more of a Knights of Columbus session than a public forum session. My hubby & I agreed it was very misleading. To top it all they had only one microphone working. The one the Bishop was using.

    There were questions about Catholic private school education(in Barry’s Bay), church closings(so far no closings) Priest shortage….God will take care of the priests shortage. We should keep on praying for vocations. As for Catholics not filling more those church pews. The Bishop enjoyed this quote somebody shared with him awhile ago.

    *Feed my sheep, don’t count them!* Trust God.

    Sometimes a shortage of priests is good then people will realize not to take their priests for granted. With family prayer & devotion to the Catholic faith then they will encourage vocation within their families. More priests & religious.

    Talk to some people & no surprise there they were not happy with the Bishop.

    We did not stay for the snacks but left. Went to Tim Horton’s for coffee, decaf. of course.

    Later on at home I was thinking about that quote from the Bishop: *Feed my sheep, don’t count them!*

    I wonder if that’s what Bishop Mulhall thinks when he talks about the clergy abuse victims. —Don’t worry about the numbers of victims folks…God will take care of them?—

    Lina

  40. Larry Green says:

    Their downward spiral is without any doubt well beyond their control now. They have no idea of the spiritual damage they exacerbate in their ( the catholic church) resolve to reconstruct a good, credible and holy self image with lame attempts to ‘ publicly’ pacify victims and berating comments which imply that the laity -whose trust in the church has been destroyed – are the ones to blame for the churches descent.
    They know what they are doing but they have been ensnared by the hideous craving to be admired – to seek human glory. It is all very very sick and it is times like this that I can’t bring myself to listen or talk to any member of clergy or bishop or pope with any kind of descency whatsoever. They have all betrayed every catholic with their stupid disgusting hypocrisy .They all , I mean ALL enrage me right to the core of my being and right at this moment so does anyone who comes up with the groundless ridiculous claim that most clergy are good and holy men. All evidence ” by far ” contradicts such a pathetic claim. These people as far as I am concerned are sorry excuses for men let alone holy ones.
    It’s to bad I have to leave for work because I have so much gut to spill.

    • Lina says:

      I here you Larry.
      These lyrics from a country song brings out my feelings called:

      “Tired of Pretending” by Radney Foster

      The silence is deafening
      It’s drowning out the truth
      And killing every good thing
      That we try to do

      It’s so polite ’round here
      It’s hiding every fear
      That we don’t talk about
      We gotta shake that demon out

      I’m tired of pretending
      That everything is gonna work out just fine
      I’m tired of pretending
      That no one’s gonna get hurt if we just stand by
      While we’re descending
      I’m tired of pretending

      It’s an amazing thing
      All of the lies you tell
      They don’t do anything
      But help you fool yourself

      Starting today I’m done
      I’m through holding onto
      Some dark secret that we keep
      I’ve bitten my tongue until it bleeds

      I’m tired of pretending
      That everything is gonna work out just fine
      I’m tired of pretending
      That no one’s gonna get hurt if we just stand by
      House of cards is just like this (home) place
      With a flick of a finger the old damn thing gone

      I’m tired of pretending
      That everything is gonna work out just fine
      I’m tired of pretending
      That no one’s gonna get hurt if we just stand by
      I’m tired of pretending
      That everything is gonna work out just fine
      While we’re descending
      I’m tired of pretending
      This lie that we’re living
      Won’t have a happy ending

      Tired of pretending
      ———

    • Brunelle Brenda says:

      Amen, finally a Gospel written for its people.

      Amen

      bb

  41. Valleygirl says:

    My thoughts are prayers are with Robert Borne’s victims today. May we start to move a little closer toward some justice.

    • Lina says:

      I totally agree with you Valleygirl.

      I wonder how the victims are holding up…it must be so frustrating for them.

      About Monsignor Robert Borne.

      Everything is quiet…especially in the local media.
      I wonder why?

      Lina

  42. Sylvia says:

    I have been told that the case has been put over to August, and perhaps November. Can anyone confirm or give more detail?

    I am hoping for something in the media tomorrow.

  43. Sylvia,
    I sent you an email link to a story in the Pembroke Observer about yesterdays court date. I am puzzled though by the article. Initially there were charges laid involving three victims. Then three more came forward. The latter three were thrown out earlier (why?) and now (if the article is correct) he’s only being prosecuted over two cases. What happened to the third one from the original group?
    As I’ve once shared with Larry, I doubt I’ll hear anything official from the Diocese as they seem to think that we priests (and the faithful laity) are human mushrooms… we’re kept in the dark and fed shit! I’d be curious to know if you can find out any more details. Thanks.
    Fr. Tim

  44. Sylvia says:

    There was a huge whittling last summer – one victim was ‘cut’ and a raft of charges disappeared. I blogged about it then.

    And, thanks for the link Father. The article is now posted: 16 March 2011: Trial of Pembroke priest to start Nov. 14

    I will update the Legal Calendar accordingly

  45. Sylvia: Thanks for the link! The comments from Snowdog fits with what I’ve heard from friends in the Pembroke area: that the first batch of victims were over the legal age of consent at the time and were therefore not able to accuse him of ‘abuse’.

    Sad indeed and somewhat damning don’t you think? It seems to imply that he is admitting to having sexual relations with teenage boys. I hope and pray (if this is true) that this is grounds enough to ensure that he never makes it back into ministry again. I know that (again if its true) I will never want to be associated with him as a priest of the diocese ever again.

    Fr. Tim

  46. Lina says:

    A St. Joseph nun came for a very short visit yesterday and brought the Eucharist to an elderly (86yr.old) loved one of mine.

    This Sister of St. Joseph commented that her and all the other Sisters are so displeased, hurt and concerned what Bishop Raymond Lahey did. She’s glad Lahey admitted all the porn stuff was his.

    This sister did not stop there. She continued to say that Monsignor Robert Borne (from the Diocese of Pembroke ON) should do the same as Lahey and step forward and admit what he’s done.

    At least it is nice to hear the Sisters of St. Joseph believe the victims.

    Thank-you Jesus!

    Lina

  47. Sylvia says:

    OK. Here’s where things stand regarding the pre-trial motions and court this week. They were in court on Monday. An application/motion was filed. They are awaiting the judge’s ruling on that motion. The ruling on that motion will determine IF a second motion is filed tomorrow. I am unable to find out what the motion was. There should be word as to the judge’s decision by 4 pm today.

    IF they proceed a second motion will be filed in the Pembroke courthouse tomorrow. It is open to the public, as was the session on Monday.

  48. Sylvia says:

    Apologies – I was busy and unable to make the phone call. I therefore do not know if there will or will not be a motion filed tomorrow at the Pembroke courthouse. I will try to find out tomorrow. It will be after the fact, but at least we will all keep abreast of what’s happening.

  49. Sylvia says:

    There were no further motions heard. That means there was only the one motion heard on Monday 26 th and that was it. The trial is still scheduled to commence 14 November 2011: 10 am, Pembroke court house

  50. Sylvia says:

    Please note: The trial of Monsignor Borne has been rescheduled to start 21 November 2011. I will re-check again at the end of next week to ensure that that date still stands. I was unable to find out if it is still booked for two weeks as it was previously but will do that next week.

    • Lina says:

      My husband heard on a Pembroke radio station that the trial of Monsignor Robert Borne was rescheduled for Monday the 21st & he also heard on the radio it would take 2 weeks.

      That is all I know.

      In another side note….I saw Monsignor Robert Borne with his elderly mother at Walmart last Sunday. He did not see me and I did not speak to him or his Mother.
      If he was alone God knows what I would had told him. For the sake of his Mother it was better for me to have make that 180 degree turn before he saw me.

  51. Sylvia says:

    Thanks for that update Lina. So, two weeks it is.

  52. Sylvia says:

    The trial is still scheduled to start on Monday: 10 am, courtroom #3, Pembroke court house on Main St.

    I encourage all who are within driving distance to attend.

  53. DisillusionedCatholic says:

    No one is noting that Mgr. Borne was a high school chaplain at the time. He and two other priests acted as chaplains. In a sense, he was a priest, confidante, guidance counselor and mentor to students. Consequently, he was in the school at the sanction of the Renfrew County Separate School Board. If this court action fails on criminal charges, may the victims seek civil redress from the school board or diocese? To my fellow student C1, Godspeed, and some of your fellow students are hurting as we feel that it happened while were there and we feel disempowered to help you and to alleviate the pain of dealing with this trangression of trust and abuse for 3 decades. Our hearts go out to you.

    • Inhisservice says:

      I’m no lawyer but it would seem to me that the only way the diocese or school board could be held civilly liable is if there is proof that both had knowledge of Borne’s actions and did not take appropriate actions to stop him! If lacking in either, no chance for civil damages.

      • Valleygirl says:

        I’m not a lawyer either. I am a Roman Catholic and I was a student in Pembroke during the time that Robert Borne was a chaplain at the high school. Every single person who was aware of the abuse is responsible and should be held accountable. You cannot undo the damage that has been done, but the only way that this abuse is going to be stopped is if OUR church is hit with a financial hit. Don’t kid yourselves, the people in charge of OUR church to this day are still protecting and harbouring Pedophiles. I will not contribute a single nickel on Sunday until we kick out and defrock the last Pedophile in the Catholic church. It makes me sick that money is put above a child. Shame, shame, shame! God puts a very high value on children, it’s time we demand that the Catholic church does the same!

        • lostsheep2011 says:

          Hi Valleygirl! I feel your anger and resolve too.

          I for one wonder why there was no testimony from those Borne lived with at the palace? It is impossible that others who lived there did not see the comings and goings. Secondly, I wonder what school teachers knew about this apparent pattern of students leaving the high school and heading over for happy hour (or more!). Did the investigators speak with former school staff members? You know well that word would be out as to the lad(s) heading over for drinks!

          My only slight quibble with your remarks is the withholding of funds from your parish. Only a percentage of the parish funds go to the chancery to assist with the administration of the diocese. The lions share helps to keep the bills paid in the parish church. Hey, don’t get me wrong. I get what you are saying and why, but the climate is ripe for many parishes to close everywhere particularly where there are diminishing funds. That may be ok too! We may need to get a lot smaller and more holy!

  54. Sylvia says:

    Guilty! The judge ruled. He is guilty!!

    Sentencing 10 April 2012. He is NOT in custody.

  55. Lona Hegeman, Northwest Territories, Canada says:

    Sylvia: FYI: the date at the head of this page is April, 2011 – just a typo.

  56. Sylvia says:

    Thanks for that Lona – greatly appreciated. I have corrected it 🙂

  57. Ceilidhe says:

    I agree with Valleygirl. The Catholic Church cares more about their money than it does about our children! I continue to attend Mass but I no longer give money to the church because they protect peodaphile priests who belong behind bars. The very fact that although Borne has been found guilty of being a child molester, the Pembroke Diocese will now send the case to the Vatican ‘for further investigation’ rather than immediately defrocking him is sickening! In the meantime, will they move him to a parish on a reserve somewhere? Or perhaps in a third world country? Isn’t that how they handle these matters? Disgusting.

    • lostsheep2011 says:

      Borne will never function as a priest again. He is finished! Thank God!

      His case must be sent to Rome now in order for his church penalty to be imposed. The most likely outcome of this will be that he will be given the boot, for good! No better outcome!

  58. Lona Hegeman, Northwest Territories, Canada says:

    Sylvia: A quote which captures some of the emotional dialogue on this site – especially evident in the past few days:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

  59. healing says:

    Just returned from one of the Catholic churches in the Pembroke Diocese. No mention of Borne or an apology to it parishoners that once again we have gone through this. Would it be to much to say sorry or prayers of intentions for all affected.

  60. Anthony says:

    Dear healing,
    We all have a life. We go to church to pray! . I do not want to hear any apolgy etc from the pulpit of the parish I go to . I don’t mind to hear sthing of that sort in the parish in which it occured. Even if someone apologises , you may complain that they did not go far enough.
    Abuses took place out side the sanctuary of the church , so let the apologies be out side. The good faithful ,like me, who go to church regularily have nothing to do with it and therefore do not like to hear anything about it from the pulpuit.
    Why don’t you sit at home and pray for the victims instead of dictating someone else to do?

    • Lostsheep2011 says:

      Anthony, I would say that the issue of apology is strange. Prayer for victims, ways, apology from each priest to whom? In a perfect world Borne would be chained to the front railing of the Cathedral, with microphone in hand, through all of Lent apologizing to everyone!

      I also agree with you about the language. I do agree that the press release from the diocese was lame in the extreme, however I think you are also right. Whatever would be offered, whether in church or elsewhere would likely be parsed and analyzed to death for some never to be contented.

    • Anthony: I disagree with you. As a priest of the Diocese, I think an apology is appropriate. I said so at mass this weekend. Someone who represents the Church (and by extension, Christ himself) has been convicted of abusing a child. It reflects on all of us who share in this same ministry. To say that I am sorry that a ‘brother priest’ did this is natural, right and proper IMHO.

      Fr. Tim

      • Tim Dooling says:

        Father Moyle, do you not think it is time you went back to your former vow to bow out from this site? One would think with your Pastoral duties, the obligation to catechize your own parishioners, your own blog, and counselling others, that you have too much to do already.
        In other words, butt out.

  61. Leona says:

    Anthony,

    Oh, how I wish you were right when you said outside the sanctuary of the church. Do you really know that? I can tell you that in the case of my offender, abuses were regularly in the sanctuary, in the sacristy, in the choir loft….If only we could all shut our eyes, and close our ears to this evil. Yes, the good faithful like you have a lot to do with it!

  62. Larry Green says:

    Healing , it’s awfull but it is not surprising at all!
    Leona, So very very well stated and I support you and what you have said 110% !!!

  63. Lina says:

    Yesterday, Monsignor Robert Borne was seen at “Our Lady Of Lourdes Church” in Pembroke ON at their Saturday evening Mass. Borne was with is Mother. His mother wore dark glasses. Borne did not go up and received the Holy Eucharist.

    • lostsheep2011 says:

      Lina, with respect, you are spreading gossip. One assumes that you were not there and the phone lines or email lines have lit up over this fact. These facts don’t need to be spread.

      God bless Borne’s mother, poor soul. May Borne frequently present himself before God for forgiveness at the mass and pray hours on end at a time for those he hurt so badly.

      • Lina says:

        Sylvia stated many times that a limit of 4 (four) posting a day unless it’s some kind of emergency.

        I’ve wasted one posting already on you…poster of many names?

        Maybe you just do not want ALL the truth to come out about Monsignor Robert Borne for whatever childless reasons you have.

        So using Borne’s mother and her children has a deflection is a waste of time.

        By the way, you lost credibility with me long ago for not respecting Sylvia when she told you to SLOW down on the posting.

        • lostsheep2011 says:

          Well if Madam Moderator has indicated that, she doesn’t observe it herself. And she permits many of her ‘regulars’ to do likewise.

          If you took a tiny second to READ what I said to her, you might know that I only had to change names because she blocked me out – after I challenged her on a FACTUAL error.

          You are the one who raised the gossip about Borne and his mother – who’s the one off topic and spreading unnecessary and inaccurate information?

          Based on your behavior, I could care less about what you think about me! Reminds me of the old Kenny Rogers song: “you picked a fine time to leave me Lucille”……….happy stalking!

          • Lina says:

            My final notice to you poster.

            Sometimes I wonder if you are Borne himself?

            There are incidents at a swimming pool at a certain Pembroke convent (years ago) that Borne was at with other males present.

            There is a witness and that witness told his parents he just got the hell out of there. He did not LIKE what Borne was doing.

            The nuns were NOT involved but still it happened under their roof. I repeat the nuns were NOT involved or knew.

            Wait till that bombshell hits the media one day.

          • Lostsheep2011 says:

            If a single person, including sisters, have any knowledge about his disgusting behavior taking place on THEIR premises and in their pool, they have a moral and legal obligation to report. The nuns and your friends dont want criminal detectives landing at their door! Perhaps some will read this and investigate. All the better!

  64. healing says:

    Thanks for the sermon Anthony. Second one I got today.
    You may be a good faithful Catholic but obviously not a Christian. I have done nothing but pray for the victims and their families but what about people like me questioning their faith in the Catholic church. It may not have happened in my parish but Borne and Prince have been the parish priests for many of my friends and relatives. So I just wanted Pembroke to show a little care and compassion for us all. Next time your sitting in church praying. Look beside you, you may find a victim that doesn’t have the courage to come forward and it may have happened in your parish.

    • lostsheep2011 says:

      ………our parish prayed for all victims of sexual abuse and for all you the care of children and teens. May there innocence and lives be protected…………..I attend mass in Pembroke.

      • Sylvia says:

        That’s good news lostsheep2011

      • Larry Green says:

        Maybe we should get together and have a MAN To MAN -FACE TO FACE-discusion about some of these non canonical issues you that you have challenged me on here!!!
        I find it much easier to talk to a MAN when he isn’t hiding under his momy’s skirt!!!
        What do you say little sheepy!!!
        Perhaps you even know me , ( if you do , you know ther is nothing to be afraid of) I do construction work in and around the valley and I’ve done a lot of work in the churches (especially Cathedral) and rectories over the course of many years.

        Larry Green , Pembroke, Ontario

  65. Sylvia says:

    Anthony, I disagree with yo 100%. Since his ordination Monsingor Borne was active in various capacities throughout the entire diocese. ALL Catholics in the diocese have been deceived and betrayed by this man. An apology is owed.

    I am disappointed to see you refer to yourself as one of the “good faithful” who attend Church regularly and want to hear nothing of this from the pulpit.

    You don’t think prayers for the victims of Monsignor Robert Borne are appropriate during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I certainly do. Heaven knows they have suffered much and are need of the prayers.

    I also think a public apology at all Masses is in order, necessary and totally appropriate.

  66. TBH says:

    Lina, you seem to stalk Msgr. Borne and his family. You continue to note places, times, dates etc. that you claim to see him and his mother/family etc. For your information Msgr. did not attend mass at Lourdes Church on Saturday evening with his mother who you say wore dark glasses. You had better start getting your so called facts straight before you post what you have no proof of. Karma is a bitc#.

    • lostsheep2011 says:

      I agree with you completely. The spreading of this gossip is a sin. So many people with not enough to do, spreading needless and often inaccurate gossip around town. While we all have our anger, rage, disappointment and sadness to contend with, let’s not forget a HIGH calling we have as church – we are to be a community of welcome, healing and forgiveness even with those that we find it hard to embrace! I do not want any person, not any member of Borne’s family or Borne himself to be considered BARRED from our worship. Would the Lord lock the door?

  67. Lona Hegeman says:

    Hi Lena:
    Wow that that TBH knows that soon-to-be-former-monsigneur awfully well. He even knows what Borne did this weekend. What’s up with that! Maybe TBH can send us regular updates when that soon-to-be-former-monsigneur is behind bars. If anyone will be current, TBH will be the one. Take care, Lena.

    • Lina says:

      Hi Lona….posters like TBS and others do not frighten me.

      Let then vent. I do not care even when they use words like sin and gossip. In my opinion it is just another way to keep stuff quiet and keep the cover-ups going.

  68. DisillusionedCatholic says:

    Father Tim Moyle’s comments are welcomed and I appreciate that he leaps into this important discourse offering practical and spiritual comments. He is a brave man to step up and talk about this. I know that this is a volatile topic but let’s not turn on each other analyzing fellow comments. Let’s just offer support to the victims; frankly that is what I thought that this very useful and courageous website is all about. Thank you Sylvia. Keep up the good work.

    • DC: Thank you. But I still think that it’s time to bow out of the conversation. When I become the topic of discussion, then I have provoked an unintended response. This site is not about me. It’s about victims and the predators that harmed them. It is proper for me to return to just reading for a while to let things settle down.

      Fr. Tim

  69. Hope says:

    Thank you Sylvia and all of the concerned people, who have taken time to share with and educate us on the Robert Borne case. Here are my thoughts:

    In the church when a public sin has been committed, it seems like there is confusion as how to handle it (especially when it is a crime by law). We have seen over the years a variety of examples:
    a) look the other way or help to hide it
    b) show no mercy
    c) give a consequence fitting the sin and make every attempt to restore the person to God and the Church.
    It seems so much like parenting:
    a) the Permissive Parent: “That’s O.K.”
    b) the Authoritarian Parent: “My way or the highway”
    c) the Godly Parent: ” I still love you but you will be receiving a consequence and have to pay restitution”
    If examining ourselves truthfully, our own attitudes would most likely fall into one of these categories.
    I believe that Jesus would want us to forgive (only possible with his divine help). Remember the Lord’s Prayer, “Forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those that tresspass against us”. I also believe that there has to be a sufficient consequence for a crime like this, otherwise sin grows (and it is a crime whether the court or anyone else acknowledges it or not). I would like to add that although forgiven, in some cases such as this, it would be wisdom that the person not be given this position (including having access to vulnerable persons) again. I don’t take this situation lightly, it makes me feel sick. I do however have hope and would like to give it to anyone that is in need of it.

  70. TBH says:

    Lina you are dillusional. Keep stuff quiet and cover it up, are you for real. If you know so much why have you not come forward and saved these souls you speak of! Because you have and know nothing. Yes, I know the Borne family very well, so I will continue to contradict every inaccurate statement YOU make on this site 🙂

    And lostsheep2011 I agree !!! The Lord would not lock the door !!!

  71. TBH says:

    Just a side note…I see there are some bloggers on here with whom I thought were friends of the Borne family….it’s a shame to see how two faced people can be 🙂
    as I mentioned earlier Karma is a bitc# !

    • Larry Green says:

      TBH, I suggest you give your head a shake before you make such non-realistic , mindless and unfair judgments about the Borne family and there friends. You have with your comments implied that the Borne family along with Monsignor Borne is one entity. Are you so foolish that you are not capable of recognizing the fact that each person in the Borne family is an individual human being and responsible individually each for their own conduct?

      One of the victims and his family in this whole tragedy happens to have been a friend of my family.

      The Borne family and in particular “the family extended by marriage” have for many years been the most cherished and dearest friends in the lives of myself and my families and that has never in my mind stopped being the case and it will forever continue if I have anything to do with it.
      I can’t tell you how many times since Monsignor Borne was charged with these offences that I have stood up firmly and in no uncertain terms in defence of this family in front of and face to face ( without regard of who it was) those who would even in the most subtle way unjustifiably and idiotically imply that the family deserves to share in the shame or guilt. This is a beautiful family who has so much hurt to work through but they nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of . I personally I have nothing but LOVE and RESPECT for each and everyone of them.
      Larry Green, Pembroke Ontario

  72. TBH says:

    Sylvia, I find it very disrespectful of you to continue refering to Mrs. Borne as Borne’s mother. She is an extremely kind woman and I am quite sure she has earned the title of Mrs. Borne after being married to such a wonderful man for more than I believe 50 years. Also, just to get your facts straight at no time ever was Mrs. Borne present in the court room or court house during any of these events.

  73. Sylvia says:

    If that’s the case and Mrs. Borne, Monsignor Robert Borne’s mother, was not in the courthouse, then I apologize for the error. I was told that the white-haired lady was Mrs. Borne. Unless I hear otherwise I will have to, and will, take your word for it. I will correct accordingly.

  74. jon smith says:

    Once again – putting inaccurate info on this site!

    • Jon: Any one who runs a blog occasionally makes a mistake. Sylvia is far more accurate than most. IF she is in error, it is a rare event indeed. Research the site for yourself. You will see that my assessment is correct.

      Fr. Tim

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