Borne: Monsignor Robert Borne

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Robert Lloyd BorneMonsignor Robert Borne)

Priest Diocese of Pembroke, Ontario.  Ordained 1974.  25 November 2011:  GUILTY

04 December 2015Borne was laicizied/reduced to the lay state/defrocked

THIS PAGE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION

 10 April 2012:  Nine month conditional sentence

Next court date:  10 April 2012 for Sentencing:  10 am, courtroom #3 or #5, Pembroke Ontario courthouse (297 Pembroke Street East).

TRIAL:  Rescheduled to 21 November 2011( 10 am, courtroom #3 Pembroke courthouse, Main St., Pembroke.  Trial by judge – booked for two weeks)  14 November 2011 (10 am Pembroke courthouse.  Trial by judge – booked for two weeks)

Week of 26 September set aside for pre-trial motions (one motion heard Monday 26 – that was it for the week)15 March 2011 (10 am, two days booked for pre-trial motions);   01 November 2010 (Crown and defence to set trial date) 07 (o6?) October 2010 (Continuation of judicial pre-trial); 13 September 2010 (judicial pretrial)  

First charged April 2009 (police investigation lasted over a year).  Eventually faced 19 charges related to allegations of sexual abuse of five teenage boys between the years 1977 and 1995.  Five of the charges were later withdrawn or dismissed by the Crown.  (On 14 July 2010 Justice Robert Selkirk ruled that eight charges related to three complainants should not proceed to trial.  Borne will now stand trial on four charges related to the sex abuse allegations of two “alleged” victims)

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25 January 2016:  Borne laicized (defrocked) 04 December 2015

29 November 2011:  R v Borne Reasons for Decision ( Judge denies Crown motion to admit evidence of other discreditable conduct by Father Robert Borne at the priest’s trial)

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25 August 2010:  Correspondence: Pembroke Priest for Justice, Truth & Integrity

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Priest, Diocese of Pembroke, Ontario.

20 April 1974:  Ordained (Joseph Raymond Windle Bishop of Pembroke at the time)

1974-1975:  Priest at St. Ann Church, Mattawa, Ontario

1978:  according to one source was a counsellor and taught religion at Catholic High in Pembroke from 1978 until 1982 other chaplains at the school were Fathers O’Brien and Dobec.  At the same time Borne had begun to serve as Secretary to Bishop Windle.  The school was within easy walking distance of the diocesan offices.

In 1982 the school relocated to the building formely known as Champlain High.  At that time Catholic High changed its name to Bishop Smith Catholic High.

Borne continued to function as a chaplain at Bishop Smith, as did O’Brien and, I think, Dobec.  It seems that around this time or shortly before the move Father W. Kenny joined the group of chaplains.

An entry in Lift Up Your Hearts (Legree) reads:

In September of 1982, Catholic High School moved to a new site at Bishop Smith School.

A team of three Chaplains, Fathers K. O’Brien, R. Borne and W. Kenney work closely with the teachers and students to build a Catholic School community.

http://www.theinquiry.ca/wordpress/2010/07/15/what-happened/comment-page-1/#comment-60813

1980: Vice Chancellor and Secretary (Chancellor Msgr. M. H. Barry) Also serving on the diocesan marriage tribunal.

– Master of Ceremonies to Bishop Windle

– In charge of Missionary Education and Liturgy for the Diocese

1985-1986:  Chancellor Diocese of Pembroke – also serving on the marriage tribunal

1992:  Chancellor, – also serving on the marriage tribunal

1993: Chancellor – also serving on the marriage tribunal (Bishop Joseph Windel retired 05 May 1993- Bishop Brendan O’Brien installed 22 June 1993)

1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998:  Chancellor –  also serving on the marriage tribunal

1995-2008:  Pastor at St. James Church, Eganville (also Nativity of Our Lady Mission Church, Golden Lake, Ontario)  (still listed as Chancellor and serving on the tribunal in the 1999, 2000 and 2002 directories which I have on hand)

01 September 2004:  was appointed priest coordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.  As I understand it he continued to pastor at St. James in Eganville.

June 2008:  appointed to serve on the Diocesan Marriage Tribunal (Eganville Leader) (I have been told that Borne was removed from Eganville around or shortly after the time sex abuse allegations against a student at St. James School became public)

April 2009:  first charges laid  against Monsignor Borne

August 2009: Relieved of his pastoral duties and moved to the chancery office in Pembroke to perform administrative duties

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16 April 2012: Eganville priest given conditional sentence for indecent assault

11 April 2012:  BLOG Happy Day

11 April 2012:  Victim describes loss of faith in Catholic Church because of abuse by Robert Borne

11 April 2012: Borne receives house arrest for indecent assault

11 April 2012: Monsignor Borne given nine-month conditional sentence

10 April 2012: BLOG Tut tut!

15 December 2011: Comments on “Forgive Us Our Trespasses”

10 December 2011: Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive others. . .

07 December 2011: Forgive Us Our Trespasses

30 November 2011:  Robert Borne convicted of indecent assault

30 November 2011: Robert Borne testifies he did grope a teenage boy but maintains he is not gay

28 November 2011:  BLOG A recap

25 November 2011: Pembroke Diocese Press Release re conviction of Monsignor Robert Borne

25 November 2011: Msgr. Borne found guilty

25 November 2011: Pembroke priest found guilty of indecent assault and gross indecency

25 November 2011: Ontario priest convicted of 1979 assault 

25 November 2011: BLOG Guilty!

25 November 2011: Judge to hand down Borne verdict today

24 November 2011: BLOG Not on duty when groping

24 November 2011: Monsignor Borne takes the stand at assault trial

23 November 2011: Second alleged victim recalls Borne advances at Griffith rectory (Day Two of trial)

23 November 2011: Borne trial hears of sexual assaults in Pembroke rectory (Day One of trial)

23 November 2011: BLOG He slit his own throat

23 November 2011: Teen OK with getting groped, priest testifies with comments

23 November 2011: Witness’s credibility attacked

23 November 2011: BLOG That was it!

22 November 2011:  Alleged victim talks

16 March 2011:  Trial of Pembroke priest to start Nov. 14

03 November 2010:  Borne trial date possibly next fall  (scroll down)

22 September 2010:  Borne judicial pre-trial continues in October

16 September 2010: Court process continues

26 August 2010:  BLOG Pembroke Priests for Justice, Truth & Integrity

03 August 2010:  Very very very strange

15 July 2010: Eight charges dropped

15 July 2010:  BLOG What happened?

14 July 2010:  BLOG Any news?

14 July 2010:  Pembroke priest to face fewer charges

 

16 July 2009:  Some thoughts

15 July 2009:  Ottawa Valley priest faces more charges

10 June 2009: Priest is charged for sexual assaults

06 June 2009:  Local priest charged

05 June 2009:  Another one (BLOG)

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Msgr. Borne could stand trial this fall

The Pembroke Daily Observer

19 June 2010

A Pembroke priest will stand trial on charges of gross indecency and indecent assault.

Monsignor Robert Borne was in court June 14 to hear the arguments of Assistant Crown attorney John Pepper and his lawyer Robert Carew meant to help determine if there is enough evidence to proceed to trial on the various sex-related charges against the 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest.

The defence did not argue about the gross indecency and indecent assault charges, and Msgr. Borne could stand trial on the charges as early as this fall. He was facing 19 charges including gross indecency, sexual exploitation, indecent assault against a male and breach of trust, in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1993, although five were withdrawn or dismissed by the crown this week.

A publication ban has been imposed to protect the identities of the alleged victims.

Justice Robert Selkirk is expected to deliver his decision on the other counts July 14.

In January 2008, the Renfrew County Crime Unit of the Ontario Provincial Police began its investigation after receiving a complaint that a sexual assault allegedly occurred while a (then) teenage boy visited Msgr. Borne.

Other people came forward to police as a result of the original investigation.

He was initially charged in April 2009 in relation to three alleged victims. Last June, police began looking into complaints that he allegedly sexually assaulted other teenage boys. He was arrested June 5, 2009 when he turned himself in at the Renfrew OPP detachment.

A Pembroke native, Msgr. Borne was ordained April 20, 1974. He was a curate in Mattawa between 1974 and 1975.

From 1975 until 2003 he served in a number of administrative roles including chancellor of the diocese, secretary to the bishop and curate at Our Lady of Lourdes.

In 2003, Msgr. Borne became pastor of St. James Parish in Eganville and Nativity of Our Lady Mission in Golden Lake.

On Sept. 1, 2004, he was appointed priest co-ordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.

Tina Peplinskie is a Daily Observer reporter

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11 April 2010:  Diocese speaks about defrocked Pembroke priest

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Robert Borne’s case is ongoing

10 December 2009

Pembroke Daily Observer

Posted By SEAN CHASE

A Pembroke priest facing a number of sex-related charges in relation to five alleged victims will appear in court Jan. 5.

Robert Borne, 61, a Roman Catholic priest, is facing 19 charges including gross indecency, sexual exploitation, indecent assault against a male and breach of trust, in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1993.

In a provincial court in Pembroke Tuesday, Justice Robert Selkirk learned from duty counsel Jason Conklin, speaking for Mr. Borne’s attorneys, that they wish to proceed by way of discovery instead of conducting a preliminary inquiry.

Justice Selkirk said the original dates for the inquiry were from April 19 to April 27. He agreed to confirm dates for the discovery examination on Jan. 5. Mr. Borne was not in the courtroom.

The Renfrew County Crime Unit of the Ontario Provincial Police began its investigation January 2008 after receiving a complaint that a sexual assault allegedly occurred while a then-teenage boy visited Mr. Borne.

Other people came forward to police as a result of the original investigation. Mr. Bourne was initially charged in April in relation to three alleged victims.

In June, police began looking into complaints that he allegedly sexually assaulted other teenage boys. He was arrested June 5 when he turned himself in at the Renfrew OPP detachment.

Sean Chase is a Daily Observer reporter

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Prehearing set

Pembroke Daily Observer

07 October 2009

Posted By TINA PEPLINSKIE TPEPLINSKIE@THEDAILYOBSERVER.CA

A prehearing has been scheduled for a Pembroke priest facing a number of sex-related assault charges involving five alleged victims.

On Nov. 17, the Crown attorney and defence counsel for Monsignor Robert Borne will meet to discuss the charges against the 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest. The Crown has elected to proceed by indictment.

Msgr. Borne faces 19 charges, including gross indecency, sexual exploitation, indecent assault male and breach of trust, in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1993.

He was initially charged by the Ontario Provincial Police Renfrew County Crime Unit in April in relation to three alleged victims.

The investigation began in January 2008 after receiving a complaint that a sexual assault allegedly occurred while the teenage boy visited Msgr. Borne.

Other people came forward to police as a result of the original investigation.

In June, police began looking into complaints that he allegedly sexually assaulted other teenage boys.

The well-known local Roman Catholic priest is a native of Pembroke. He turned himself in at the Renfrew OPP detachment June 5 when he was arrested.

In 2003, Msgr. Borne became pastor of St. James Parish in Eganville and Nativity of Our Lady Mission in Golden Lake.

On Sept. 1, 2004, he was appointed priest co-ordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.

Msgr. Borne was ordained on April 20, 1974. He was a curate in Mattawa between 1974 and 1975.

From 1975 until 2003 he served in a number of administrative roles including chancellor of the diocese, secretary to the bishop and curate at Our Lady of Lourdes.

Tina Peplinskie is a Daily Observer reporter

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 Ottawa Valley priest faces additional sex charges

Pembroke Daily Observer

15 July 2009

Posted By JON WILING, SUN MEDIA

Provincial police have laid more sex charges against an Ottawa Valley priest, who already faces accusations going back more than 30 years.

Monsignor Robert Borne, 61, was further charged yesterday with two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust after police identified more complainants, who were teenaged boys at the time of the alleged incidents. Borne appeared in a Pembroke court yesterday.

In April, Borne was charged with six offences based on incidents alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995 involving three people. He was arrested in June. Renfrew County OPP continue to investigate.

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More charges laid against Monsignor Borne

Pembroke Daily Observer

14 July 2009

Posted By Debbie Robinson

Police have laid more charges against Monsignor Robert Borne, who was already facing six sex-related assault charges involving three alleged victims.

The monsignor, who is appearing in criminal court in Pembroke today, is charged with an additional two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in relation to two new people.

In April, the Ontario Provincial Police, Renfrew County Crime Unit, charged the 61-year-old Roman Catholic priest in connection with incidents that are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995 in relation to three victims.

In June 2009, the OPP began an investigation into further complaints that Monsignor Borne had sexually assaulted other teenage boys. As a result of the initial investigation, other people have come forward.

The well-known local Roman Catholic priest, is a native of Pembroke.

He was arrested June 5 when he turned himself in at the Renfrew detachment.

At the time of the monsignor’s arrest, Bishop Michael Mulhall of the Diocese of Pembroke, issued a statement concerning the charges brought against Msgr. Borne.

“As Bishop of the Diocese of Pembroke, I wish to express my deep concern, and that of the diocese, for the people who have brought forth allegations against Msgr. Borne. Our commitment is to work in an open and co-operative way with the civil authorities as they endeavor to unfold the truth. Many persons are deeply troubled by these events and we will do all we can to express a spirit of honesty and compassion to all concerned. Our mission as a church is to build a supportive community. We wish to allow this mandate to inspire us as to how we can assist all persons affected by these matters,” he said in the statement.

In 2003, Msgr. Borne became pastor of St. James Parish in Eganville, and Nativity of Our Lady Mission in Golden Lake. On September 1, 2004 he was appointed priest coordinator of St. Ann Parish, Cormac with particular responsibility for the annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of St. Ann, Cormac.

According to Pembroke Diocese spokesman Bruce Pappin, Msgr. Borne was transferred to the diocese office in September 2008, and assigned administrative duties. The diocese said he has not being saying mass publicly since the allegations came forward.

According to police, they began their investigation in January 2008 after receiving a complaint that Msgr. Borne had sexually assaulted a then, teenage boy while he visiting with Msgr. Borne. The statement issued by police said that the other victims were identified as a result of the initial investigation.

Monsignor Borne was ordained on April 20, 1974. He was a curate in Mattawa between 1974 and 1975.

From 1975 until 2003 he served in a number of administrative roles including chancellor of the diocese, secretary to the bishop and curate at Our Lady of Lourdes.

He became pastor at St. James in Eganville in 2003.

Detective Const. Jamie Trader and Detective Const. Lori Birmingham, under the direction of the OPP Detective Inspector Jeff Bahm, Criminal Investigation Branch, are continuing their investigation.

With files from Anthony Dixon

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Borne case cuts deepest in diocese

Police receive new complaint against Pembroke monsignor

Ottawa Citizen

08 July 2009

Kelly Egan

Of the 52 priests listed in the clerical directory at the Archdiocese of Pembroke, four are conferred the honorary title of monsignor.

One is retired. One is serving a jail term. One has just been charged with sexual assault.

These are, indeed, trying times for Roman Catholics in the upper Ottawa Valley.

Nor is it over. The OPP said Tuesday that new information, in the form of a fresh complaint, had been received in the ongoing matter of Msgr. Robert Borne.

This is the case that has cut the deepest.

Msgr. Borne, 60, was charged in April with gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in connection with three alleged victims between 1977 and 1995.

He was not just another priest.

Part of a well-known Pembroke family, Msgr. Borne was sometimes called the bishop’s right-hand man.

For many years, he was the parish priest at St. James Church in Eganville, taking over at the end of 1995 in the aftermath of a terrible fire, a seminal event in the life of the village.

As part of his duties, he was also pastor for a mission church, Nativity of Mary, in Golden Lake.

He later took over a small parish in Cormac, also helping to organize the annual pilgrimage to a shrine dedicated to St. Ann every July. It attracted hundreds and was often featured on the front pages of weekly newspapers.

Msgr. Borne also served as a bishop’s assistant and with the chancery office in Pembroke.

All of which to say this: As a cleric, he was here, there and everywhere in the religious life of Renfrew County.

And he is accused of breaking trust in a way that shakes the foundation of people’s faith.

One would have thought it would be an opportunity for Bishop Michael Mulhall to address the parishioners of St. James — indeed, all Renfrew County Catholics — and the broader community.

He has chosen not to. Instead, early on, he released a prepared statement.

“As Bishop of the Diocese of Pembroke, I wish to express my deep concern, and that of the diocese, for the people who have brought forth allegations against Msgr. Borne. Our commitment is to work in an open and cooperative way with the civil authorities as they endeavor to unfold the truth. Many persons are deeply troubled by these events and we will do all we can to express a spirit of honesty and compassion to all concerned.

“Our mission as a church is to build a supportive community. We wish to allow this mandate to inspire us as to how we can assist all persons affected by these matters.”

As recently as Tuesday, he has chosen not to comment. This is an unwise option, and here’s why.

Setting aside Msgr. Borne’s matter, history has taught us that secrecy is a big part of these cases. Victims take a long time to come forward. There is guilt and shame, misplaced. So often, the church knew something.

When was the last time you heard a bishop say publicly, in effect: “We messed this up, in a major way. We broke a sacred trust. Any other victims, please come forward. All we can do is try to make it right”?

Instead, with rare exceptions, there is silence.

Rob Talach is a lawyer in London, Ont., with extensive experience in dealing with the victims of abuse at the hands of clerics.

He represents 15 victims of Msgr. Bernard Prince, 73, a priest attached to the Pembroke diocese who was sentenced to four years in prison in January 2008. He was convicted of molesting 13 young boys over a 20-year period.

Talach says there is a disconnect between how the church reacts in a pastoral setting to its parishioners and how the institution reacts to allegations — criminal or civil — of abuse. “If I sued IBM, I’d probably get about the same reaction as when I sue the church.”

He agreed that bishops have many options in reaching out to Catholics without jeopardizing criminal cases. “I don’t know about this bishop, but generally, they haven’t handled it very effectively.”

The loss of trust is at the heart of these cases, Talach says. It is a common theme among victims.

“The breach of trust is one of the most paramount things. That is a very difficult thing to get through life with,” he said. “You don’t trust other people at all. Your personal relationships are impacted, your work, your education is affected. They clearly lose their belief in a higher being.”

Trust is a thing built brick by brick. It doesn’t happen overnight, though it can be lost that quickly.

But, surely, the first step in rebuilding is communicating, not hiding behind thick stone walls.

Contact Kelly Egan at 613-726-5896 or by e-mail at kegan@thecitizen.canwest.com

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 06 June 2009:  BLOG: Another One!

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Ontario priest accused of sexual assaults

CBC News

Last Updated: Saturday, June 6, 2009 | 2:51 PM ET

The Canadian Press

A Roman Catholic priest from eastern Ontario is facing several charges after three people alleged they were sexually assaulted.

Monsignor Robert Borne, 60, of Pembroke is accused of two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in relation to three alleged victims.

Borne was charged in late April but only turned himself in to provincial police on Friday.

The incidents are alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995.

Police say their investigation began with a single complaint in January 2008.

Borne will appear in a Pembroke court July 7.

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Monsignor Robert Borne charged with sexual assault

St. James Parish priest released from custody

05 June 2009

Posted By Debbie Robinson

A well-known Roman Catholic priest has been accused of sexually assaulting three victims.

Exactly 25 years to the day of his ordination, Monsignor Robert Borne, a Pembroke native, was charged in relation to incidents alleged to have occurred between 1977 and 1995.

In January 2008, the Ontario Provincial Police, Renfrew County Crime Unit, began an investigation into a complaint that Monsignor Borne had sexually assaulted a then, teenage boy, while he was visiting with Borne.

As a result of the initial investigation, other victims have been identified.

On April 20, 2009, Borne was charged with two counts each of gross indecency, indecent assault and breach of trust in relation to three victims.

He was arrested today, June 5, and was released on conditions. He is to appear in Pembroke court on July 7, 2009.

351 Responses to Borne: Monsignor Robert Borne

  1. Lona Hegeman says:

    TBH and Happy Martin: I am baffled. How is confusing the nuances of a familial relationship disrespectful behaviour? Perhaps your rage is actually triggered by the outcome of the trial. That I understand. But claiming Sylvia- in this instance – is being disrespectful is a bizarre statement. And probably not helpful to the guilty party – R. Bourne.

    • HappyMartin says:

      I don’t think there was any ‘confusion’ concerning the nuances. In polite and civil society a fine woman, a senior of the community, should be treated with nothing but respect. Calling her Mrs. Borne (note the correct spelling) is more respectful and proper. Manners and respect, not rage or something bizarre at all.

      • TLWST says:

        Did Mrs. Borne know what was going on Happy Martin? One of the victims (not in the trial) mentioned that no one including Robert Borne’s parents questioned why he was sharing a bed with this boy when there were plenty of empty rooms. If she did know and didn’t report anything then no she doesn’t deserve our respect any more than the other priests and bishops that hid things. You cannot hide abuse to protect your own family at the expense of children. I guess the question really is does she deserve our respect?

        • TLWST: I believe that the trial revealed that the victims were bedded down in the rectory, not his parents house. I too know Mrs. Borne and can attest that she is wonderful and classy lady. She most certainly deserves our respect.

          Remember, bad kids can come out of good families too! His actions do not reflect badly upon his family.

          Fr. Tim

          • TLWST says:

            Yes Father you are right. One person alluded to the fact that he thought they knew. Some of my family knows Mrs. Borne as well and all have only good things to say. I also know that this must be a terrible time for her. I am just frustrated by adults who constantly look the other way.

          • That’s easy to understand! We are all frustrated by people who enable these abuses by keeping silent about what they know. You are in good company!

            Fr. Tim

          • Lostsheep2011 says:

            Friar Tim, I seem to recall that you asked me not to fight your battles for you by replying. I ask now that you do likewise for me and refrain from doing so for posts to me! I don’t need your help!

          • Sheep: So, you are also ‘Happy Martin’? Hard to keep track of all your handles. I was unaware that I was defending you. Actually I wasn’t… I was standing up for Mrs. Borne.

            C’est la vie!

            Fr. Tim

          • Lostsheep2011 says:

            Sorry father….I was re-reading previous banter and got confused……not my battle! Apologies-remarks not applicable to you.

          • Lostsheep2011 says:

            I had attempted to correct the error immediately, however the ‘warden’ HAD blocked me out. HAD – benefits of studying a great deal about computers at work and at home!

        • Lostsheep2011 says:

          Dont convict or make charges without facts! Reckless, reckless!

  2. JG says:

    At times like this I always wonder how He would feel… He that is being quoted as a reference, called upon from all sides to gain credence…He that we reject every time we replace His Love for us with arrogance and selfishness…When you need to know the Bible “by heart” to pretend to be a “better” Christian, you have little room left in that heart to hear his voice calling “his children”.
    He was called “The Prince of Peace”… we forget!

    Whatever you believe and whoever you blame for your loss, there was a profound reason for turning “the other cheek”…accepting criticism should make everyone, every and any institution better…listen more and speak sometimes with maybe the Hope someone will hear…slow to anger and quicker with remorse and reparation.
    Falling is inevitable but standing up again is where courage attracts renewed loyalty…

    Anger and violence in so many hurtful words…

    To all those who have felt the pain and sorrow of this passing storm, to the victims, the ones who have been silent and confused by the uninspired rhetoric the last days…just don’t despair and keep your head up and your hunger for “Justice” intact.
    I believe better times are on the way…
    Christmas in just a month … It should be every day!
    I’m a dreamer…”Peace “to all.
    jg

  3. hopeful says:

    I have read the various posts of late with much sadness . In my own life I have felt that the Church was my spiritual home and I do not want to turn my back on the notion of redemption and forgiveness. As I am seeking forgiveness for my own transgressions . For Fr. Borne I feel sadness for he will be alienated from a life and status he once had . He has fallen far. But the men he has hurt deeply have lost so much .They are very brave and they still have to face scrutiny and judgement from people for not coming forth earlier . Why would they come forth if this is how they are to be treated ?There is much litereature out there for people to educate themselves on the nature of sexual abuse and post -traumatic stress. Perhaps before handing out a hurtful, biased comment one should try to understand what these men have endured. Once again Sylvia keep up the good work .

    • Ray Selbie says:

      Hopeful,
      Your words are probably the among the most incitfeul that I have read thus far now that Borne has been convicted.
      We in the Church and without all suffer as the result of the breaches of trust commited by those in authority.

      However, there is the concept of redemption-What if one were to commit a sin/crime such as Borne’s and this was in a period of severe mental stress or even illness and then, one finds himself or herself becoming healthy once more with proper medical, psychistric and spiritual care-do we then refuse that one ability to beg forgivness and rectify their lives?? (it appears that Borne did not beg forgiveness that we are aware of so please do not accuse me of being blind).
      If we remove this from the sexual and abuse realm perpetrated by perverts, and perhaps consider the transgression to have been an addiction problem or a theft of funds we seem much more willing to allow room for forgiveness and healing. Again I go back to former comments and my belief that little or nothing positive will result until we have some sort of truth and reconciliation commission i.e a group with power and participation by all concerned that will try to move on and heal the wounds.

      In the end, the first Pope-Peter- denied the Lord three times – is this not also a breach of trust and yet he was forgiven.

      I have bowed out of the discussions of late as we seem to be turning inward and attacking each other. I am not trying to make light of this or any other abuse however, if we continue to whip the sinner and turn on each other WHAT HAS BEEN GAINED??
      Ray Selbie

      • Larry Green says:

        Ray Selbe , lets keep it real. The inward turning and attacking each other has been a self fullfilling prophesy led by yourself !
        The ” sinner ” whipped most here has been the ” HOMO “.And I will continue to “turn” on anyone who insits on whipping this “sinner” until SOMETHING HAS BEEN GAINED !!

        • Ray Selbie says:

          Larry,
          I respect your rights under the Canadian Constitution and the rights provided therein for what you call ‘homo’
          Please at least have the common decency to respect the rights also protected for people such as me and many others to believe in and teach the tenents of their faith.
          Ray Selbie

          • Larry Green says:

            Ray Selbe,
            You respect the rights of homosexuals insofar as and to the point that the Canadian Constitution and rights forces you to. And no doubt ,you are waliking a fine line here Mr. Selbe.
            You have no ‘right” to “teach” anywhere in the world that it’s okay to condemn homosexuals or any other class of individuals.
            You have made it clear in a previous post that you are Catholic primarily or only because -for the time being- some parts of the catholic church are in line with you’re stance against gays but as you indicated if that changes You are Out. So at least have the courage to argue on your own behalf instead of hiding behind OUR church.
            You’re ‘lawyership’ at least for one is apparently enough reason to be a follower.

          • Ray Selbie says:

            larry,
            You will be happy to hear that I will no longer lower myself to respond to your attacks and insults. Have a great life.
            Ray Selbie

          • Lostsheep2011 says:

            Good for you Ray! I agree entirely. Fighting for a persons rights under the constitution is one thing. Expecting every church to park their dogma and teaching, to turn it’s back on it’s tenants is quite another! I don’t understand why some don’t get that? Do these same folks push pork down Jews throats?

          • Larry Green says:

            ” teach ? “

        • Tim Dooling says:

          Oh Larry, must you always end up huffing and puffing?
          Your chest is stuck out so far it is interfering with highway traffic.

          • TLWST says:

            Ray, I agree that if someone does take responsibility, apologizes, and works to change themselves, and obviously never hurts a child in that manner again they deserve to be forgiven. Perhaps easy for me to say as I am not a victim. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, we have not had any indication that Robert Borne has chosen to do this, he pushes forth with his notion that these were consensual relationships. I sincerely hope he does reach the truth about who he is and what he has done.

            This issue of homosexuality is very emotionally charged, I just wish everyone could discuss it calmly because we could all share better that way. A child in Ottawa just commited suicide over bullying because he was gay, the story is on CBC if anyone is interested. This child is not a sex abuse victim but an abused child none the less.

            My point is that regardless of the type of abuse, these children need to know they have to discuss what is happening and their parents need to help them confront their abusers. As adults, regardless of our beliefs, we all have to accept people and ensure the basic human right that individuals feel safe, protected and loved.

            I am the mother of a 1 year old boy, and my choice is to accept him no matter who he turns out to be (gay or not) and I don’t feel it is my right to judge him. I will give him a lot of advise over the years, but he will develop into who he is supposed to be as an adult and I will support him every step of the way, even when I have a difference of opinion.

            I will continue to advocate for gay rights because so much of the population attacks them and it is wrong. I also know that the church (regardless of their stance) would never advocate bullying any person (gay or not). We can at least all agree that attacking anyone is wrong. We can also all agree that we need to help victims come forward so they can find peace.

          • Lostsheep2011 says:

            Ellen DeGenerate and Chaz Bono will be so proud of you! Lol

      • Lina says:

        Why bring up the name of the first Pope, St. Peter anyway?

        True, Peter denied Christ three times. But Peter was no sexual predator manipulator or molester like Monsignor Robert Borne.

        This is what happens when people are so caught in history that happened thousands, thousands and thousands of years ago.

        They have a hard time relating to events that happens in our lifetime that pertains to the victims and their abusers.

  4. lostsheep2011 says:

    This ongoing discussion is somewhat interesting. Doesn’t it come down to this: some are of the belief that homosexual acts, homosexual lifestyle, homosexual ‘marriages’ (whatever that is) is totally acceptable. Many of the regular posters seem to be in this camp, for whatever reason.

    Roman Catholics do not accept any of this to be an accepted part of our life as church. Freedom of religion allows for such differentiations in our culture and in our belief system.

    Is it any more difficult than that?

    • TLWST says:

      lostsheep – exactly live and let live. My only reason for getting into this discussion was that I thought we should be careful on how we present our views so that children don’t feel like any topic is taboo or are afraid to address any topic with an adult (parent or priest) because if our children cannot communicate with us when they are confused or scared then I think there is a greater risk that they may be led down the wrong path or perhaps become more vulnerable to a predator.

    • Lina says:

      Then tell why so many clergy in the Roman Catholic Church are gay? Where do they come from?

      • TLWST says:

        Lina I think that for some who feel they may be homosexual, they still do not feel it is the correct lifestyle, so they choose not to have sexual relationships with other men. I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) that the church views this as acceptable….for someone to feel they are attracted to someone of the same sex as long as they do not act on that feeling. Not sure if this really answers your question. I guess a person who may have feelings that he is a homosexual can still want to serve God as a priest and can still view those feelings as something that should not be acted upon.

        • Lina says:

          TLWST thanks for your input.

          If a man in the seminary tells his spiritual director he is gay but he promise he will follow the rules of the Catholic Church it will not matter, the spiritual director will not let him proceed to become a priest. Eventhough this male wants to remain celibate.

          The Roman Catholic Church does not want gay males in the Priesthood period. Eventhough a man wants to serve as a priest he cannot because he admitted to his spiritual director or another high profile figure in the Church he is gay/homosexual.

          Therefore, in my opinion that is why many males deny themselves they are gay so they can become Catholic priests.

          Some gay priests are good. Some other gay priests are not so good. Then you have the other kind of priests like Prince and Borne who are evil manipulators, liars and sexual predators and molestors. In this category you also have those clergy that know what these criminals did and are doing (like Prince and Borne) but they keep on helping to cover up their crimes for the sake of the image of the Church. Protect the Church from scandals. The clergy abuse victims are like sacrificial lambs to them so to speak. They do not give a darn about them or their loved ones.
          They have no common sense to just do the right thing. They (these clergy) want from their flock, their supporters to keep that money flowing in collection basket every Sunday.

          Just re-read the Statement from Diocese of Pembroke following the conviction of Msgr. Robert Borne.

          They pledge pastoral concern to all involved in this matter.
          It is cold and indifferent like there are hoping no more victims comes forward.

          Do you really trust these guys? I for one surely don’t.

          They should have added please do not sue us too much!

          • TLWST says:

            Lina, thanks for clarifying this issue to me. I completely agree with everything you are saying. I agree the church could be doing more, and definitely should be communicating better. I am sure that response from the church was drafted by a lawyer. What do you want them to do? Priests and people everywhere are demanding answers and that action be taken. What about the committee Ray Selbie talks about?

          • Ray Selbie says:

            TWLST,
            Thank you for mentioning the possible solution to this mess. I have watched to last few days and aside from a lot of infighting and pissing on each other have not felt much hope.

            There has been some (but little) desire to find a solution designed to bring about healing to all concerned as well as reconciliation amongst the Church, the victims, the faithful, the nonbelievers, and yes even the perpetrators.
            Perhaps a truth and reconciliation commission is beynd the capacity of all of us and if it is, then I fear we all deserve whatever befalls us.

            I believe this site has performed an invaluable service by seeking out, exposing and following the perverts but now is the time to have a solution at least for those involved thus far. It would be foolish to believe that by destroying the Church, burning the evildoers and attacking each other we are going to rid the world of these types of evil. Please remember the Gospel that I alluded to before where the evil was driven out and then it returns seven fold ‘and the final state of the man was worse than the first’. This applies to us as individuals as well as institutions and society as a whole.

            One would be nothing but negligent to believe that matters will get better given the proliferation of child pornography and sexual exploitation of men and women so rampant on the internet. There is no hope other than a radical change of heart for all people of good will and dare I say, hope in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit to indwell with the love of the Father. We all need an essential spiritual experience that will not only condemn the work of the evil one but even more so-stand up for the truth and healing we require.
            Thank you for listening or reading and God Bless us all-even those who deny Him for without Him, I for one see no hope.
            Ray Selbie

      • Lostsheep2011 says:

        Uh…..that’s the stupidest thing I have heard all day! Unless you attempted to be intimate with them all or unless they all told you there life story, you are making a STUPID generalization!

        My question to you is why are you so fixated on the ‘gay’ thing? It is only slightly, and barely relevant to these cases.

        Struggled with YOUR sexuality Lina? Where is this coming from? Even if 99% were, their issue is being a good chaste priest, just like those who are straight! No matter the orientation, the vow is the same!

  5. Lostsheep2011 says:

    Final thought: before some lose their heads completely – we have two pervert monsignors convicted! As I understand it, the history of the church here goes back a ling way! That means that there have been dozens and dozens of very good priests who have served well and honorably. The same is true with the nuns and many others. Let’s not let the disgusting behavior of two lead us to slash and burn all, past or present. It is intellectually dishonest to do so.

  6. Sylvia says:

    Lostsheep2011, you fibbed! Father Tim has a sharp eye. He caught you. You in turn told him “Tim I had attempted to correct the error immediately, however the ‘warden’ HAD blocked me out. HAD – benefits of studying a great deal about computers at work and at home!”

    That of course, as you well know, is NOT the truth. You weren’t blocked when showed up as HappyMartin. I said nothing because I was waiting to see how far you were going to go under that, your fourth, handle, ie, maybe start a little conversation with yourself or something along those lines?

    So, Inhisservice/Evictedbysylvia/Lostsheep2011/HappyMartin, what next?

    By the way Father, I’m quite certain I know who you are 🙂

    • Lostsheep2011 says:

      Sorry – you are wrong  I immediately tried to make correction and attempted to five times. I never called father by his first name. I would encourage caution when tossing around names or identities – dangerous stuff.

      • Sylvia says:

        I have every posting you made Father. The last comment you made which was blocked is logged on the software as 2011/11/26 at 9:42 am. In that instance you used the handle Inhisservice. There has been no block since.

        You surfaced as HappyMartin on Monday evening 28 Nov. at 7:15 pm.

        You perhaps do not realize that I can block you no matter what handle you take – if I had had a block on your HappyMartin handle would not have made it through.

        You’ve been caught Father. Embarrassing I know. Let’s just leave it at that.

      • Larry Green says:

        Dangerous stuff indeed for you, although
        only if Sylvia’s intuition is accurate and I
        believe it usualy is. Not about
        everything but almost always when it
        comes to identifying certain characters.

  7. prima facie says:

    What?? Multiple personalities!! Is this clown playing with multiple handles? Ha-what a joke. Banish this “false pretender”! Off with his proverbial…….!! To the gallows!! Typical isn’t it. Any other co-conspirators who have surfaced lately. This joker has absolutely NO CREDIBILITY!!

    • Lina says:

      Would somebody be so kind to enlightening me (whether Sylvia or prima facie) please tell me what is going on about this Father person and the other guy with different handles like HappyMartin?

      I’m confused?

      Thank you!

  8. Lostsheep2011 says:

    No embarrassment whatsoever. The reply I attempted to make to the error was as myself lostsheep2011. I could not get through since you blocked it. I did not attempt to post as Happy because I am not he.

    In any case the substance of the conversations are the important part. Keep thinking all you want. No matter how often you say it don’t make it true.

    As we have already seen with your Mrs Borne in the courtroom error (nice apology by the way, didn’t have it in you!) facts are not always your strong suit. Have a great night  Btw I’m also prima facie, Larry Green, Sylvia and Tim lol

  9. prima facie says:

    Sylvia will have to clear up this person of multiple personalities. She seems to address it above; however, she now includes Father, which would lead me to assume this person using multiple “handles” is in a Religious Order. (this is only my speculation though). However, as you see by the above he/she attempts to confuse the issue again and then “runs for the hills” for the night. Hopefully, Sylvia is able to keep a line on these types of intruders who are here for several primary purposes, i.e.) to convolute the facts, derail the process and influence public opinion. My question is, has he/she been providing online moral support to any other newcomers? I believe information provided by these types of contributors must be considered unreliable and discredited.

    • Prima: Sylvia will be able to block his IP address if necessary which will keep him of the site irrespective of how many computers he has. I know that most people choose not to post on line using their own name, but it does help to keep nonsense like this to a minimum. Nevertheless, people should understand that ‘anonymous’ posting is not really that anonymous these days! (It’s because of kiddy porn fanatics that Police have developed techniques to be able to trace internet activity back to its origin.) I know this from first hand experience as Police had to investigate threats that came my way on my own blog. They were able to trace the source right back to a home in Northern California. After a visit for his local police force, my blog’s ‘troll’ discovered to his chagrin that there were consequences to his postings that he didn’t expect. ‘Inhisservice/happymartin/lostsheep2011’ should keep that in mind unless he wants to be ‘outed’.

      Fr. Tim

      • Lostsheep2011 says:

        Is that a threat Father Tim? And exactly what have I done except express my opinions on matters no different than yourself. Some days, your contributions were many more than mine and caused a great deal more consternation.

        • Sheep: Don’t be silly. I don’t make threats. Not to you or anyone else. I am NOT the threatening type!

          I am simply reminding you and anyone else that it is pretty easy these days to trace back comments to the IP address – which identifies what computer and address it came from.

          Fr. Tim

      • Larry Green says:

        Fr. Tim,
        I am aware of your experience with this problem and how you dealt with it. Glad you shared here, it may apparently become very helpfull to Sylvia.

  10. Sylvia says:

    Here’s what has been happening Lina…

    One person has been blogging under four different handles: (1) Inhisservice (2) Evictedbysylvia (3) Lostsheep2011 and, most recently, (4) HappyMartin. If necessary I can prove that they are one and the same person.

    All of the rest is incidental. I did block him for a short spell, but that was back on the 26th. Contrary to what he has to say he has not been blocked since.

    I am quite certain I know who he is. He is a priest. That’s why I referred to him as Father. I want him to know that I know.

    • Lina says:

      Thank You Sylvia,

      I thought Fr. Tim Moyle lost it and went over the edge. I prayed maybe he should go to Southdown. Thanks for clearing this mixed up Sylvia.

      Fr. Tim Moyle I am sorry I thought you were the one with the multiple handles.

      I have one more post to TLWST and I will end my posting for today.

      • Lina: You have no need to apologize to me. Your conclusion was understandable as I am the only priest who openly posts here. I never take offense at what you post. I know you to be a good person concerned for the welfare of both victims and your Church.

        All the best to you!

        Fr. Tim

        P.S. I do like the idea of getting a break though. If Southdown would grant me a change to sleep, read and rest without having to deal with funerals (6 in the last 10 days) and other such services, it might be a great place to go!! (smile)

        • Lina says:

          Thanks Fr. Tim Moyle.

          When I thought it was you Fr. Tim I shook all over, cried and repeated to myself over and over…Oh my God. Oh My God, no, no. It can’t be him! I cannot trust him! I should not had let my guard down. He betrayed victims and their supporters. I was naive all over again. I wanted to crawl into a hole.

          I calm myself down, rested and re-read all the post that was address to me by this so call priest person then I realize this priest of many name handles left a clue. It was one of the posting to me. A reference to a Kenny Roger’s song…Lucille. And when Sylvia said to us all she was 98% sure it was a priest. I knew then it had to be that priest, I knew. He zero in on info that I spoke to him and only stuff he knew I told him.

          This priest I confess to in the confessional and also face to face numerous times. This priest that I had numerous mailings of correspondences with. He knew I had a gay son but that did not stop him to use the deflection of meanness questioning my sexuality and that vicious lie thinking all nuns are lesbians etc… He went over the top.

          Sylvia ask this poster (the priest) to slow down in posting and he ignored her and insulted her.

          I responded to him because I wanted to let him know I was on to him.

          I spoke to husband already. If this priest ever speaks to me again my husband will be near by to make sure he does not harm me.

          This brother priest of yours needs help I wish I could help him but this is out of my territory.

          Thanks for listening Fr. Tim

          P.S. I believe Fr. Moyle you know who this priest is because I sent you a private e-mail long ago telling you about a problem he was causing in the parish and hope you would speak to him.

          Good luck!

          • Lina: You write: “I believe Fr. Moyle you know who this priest is because I sent you a private e-mail long ago telling you about a problem he was causing in the parish and hope you would speak to him.”

            I did. Hasn’t seemed to do much good. Please pray for him and for all of us!

            Fr. Tim

          • Lina says:

            Thank you Fr. Tim…you believe me. I am so grateful for that. I thank God.

            I do take responsibility for my sinfulness part of me but this priest in questioned has rattled my faith to the core.

            Too much damage has been done spiritually to me.

            I will be pleased for any prayers sent my way. As for me, my prayer life is in a shambles.

            Holding on to my little wooden crucifix brings me peace.

            Good night!

  11. Lostsheep2011 says:

    Since when have identities mattered? Virtually everyone is operating under a handle and not their given name.

    I think at one stage many suggested that the issue of the sexual abuse of the innocents is all that matters. That’s all that matters me.

    Btw Sylvia, you were the one who indicated that this great debate about homosexuality should only go on for a few more questions. Why did you not give that your attention as you suggested?

  12. Reality Checker says:

    Do I read the past few threads right???

    Sylvia – did you refer to “Lost Sheep” as FATHER??????

    We know someone is on this site posting under multiple handles……..but are you alluding to this TROLL being a priest???

    Lord help us!!!

  13. Sylvia says:

    Yes. Reality Checker, I did refer to “Lost Sheep” as Father. And yes, I am alluding to him being a priest.

    Lord help us indeed!

  14. Reality Checker says:

    …..he got a little upset when I concluded he was perhaps Borne’s lover.
    Looks like I might not be too far off the mark.

  15. Lostsheep2011 says:

    I will not post further after this last one. I fear someone is going to be tagged or get hurt which will be damaging. That cannot happen, particularly if there is the threat of priests names being tossed about. The priests in this diocese have suffered enough to this point.

    From the beginning my interest like many of you was to share, participate and express views. Part of that need was out of my own anger and upset about these dreadful cases. The poor innocent children and teens, there families and others have been so hurt and that is sad. In expressing my opinions, I realize that some may not have always agreed.

    As Fr Tim has said, this should all be about the victims and their healing. I must confess feeling a bit ganged up upon at times and had the feeling that this forum was not being fairly moderated.

    In any case good luck to all of you. God protect the innocent.

  16. Reality Checker says:

    …and WHO’s calling WHO a coward???

    Unfortunately it is priests like YOU who cause so much damage TROLLING sites like this .Take a look Father – just how many victims did you shut up on this blog because of all your nonsence the past few days??? Is that what your intent was?

    I’m not usually wrong about my insights …..poor poor priest – boo hoo!

  17. Reality Checker says:

    I am really troubled – if we have a priest trolling this website (blog) using various handles – computers and whatever or where ever – HOW many other web sites is this guy trolling and posting to using various handles???

    Someone check him out – PLEASE!!!

    Dangerous stuff!!!

  18. Lona Hegeman, NWT, Canada says:

    Sylvia: I think the time has come to consider bringing the matter of Happy Martin and his many other identities to the attention of his religious superiors for the following reasons:
    1. He is malicious
    2. As a member of a religious order, he has direct contact with and influence over “a flock” of some sort. Online – on this site, at least – his outbursts are tempered by replies from others who read his posts. In a real time 1-1 this would likely not occur. He has more chance to cause harm.
    3. Unless he is living in a secluded cabin (postinia) – correct that spelling, if you will, Happy Martin – or on a mountain top, this Father is impacting others (congregants) with his behaviour.
    4. Shining the light on cleric sexual abuse requires all our best efforts. The gains in awareness and support to date have been hard-won. Happy Martin’s disrespectful and disruptive behaviour goes beyond healthy and healing dialogue. One has to assume his superiors would care and curtail him.
    5. Please let me know if there is anything I can do. Thanks, Sylvia

  19. JG says:

    This “Sybil” of a priest sounds like the same blogger who posted, starting a few months ago, in early morning on Mondays…usually nonsense just to distract, get a little vengeance.
    Father “Sybil” unfortunately didn’t do very much for “the church” agenda. If he is on the R&R committee for the church, he is not doing them any favor! …that’s the “recruiting” and “retention” committee…
    One of his posts reminded me of a situation with “thieves” in business environments, where they rationalize that it wasn’t stealing…that they were not paid enough and they only took their due…
    The “good priests” in this current rationale would somehow act as a counter balance for “the church”‘s report card!!! on sexual abuse cover-up and facilitation…
    Not very honest and just further proof of the lack of morals in “this”business.

    “Whatever you believe and whoever you blame for your loss, there was a profound reason for turning “the other cheek”…accepting criticism should make everyone, every and any institution better…listen more and speak sometimes with maybe the Hope someone will hear…slow to anger and quicker with remorse and reparation.
    Falling is inevitable but standing up again is where courage attracts renewed loyalty…”

    The above was for YOU “father”… and the church “people”…and “uninspired rhetoric” also… Nothing Holly and nothing Spiritual in your fiasco!
    It is terribly sad that we have come to expect “deception” from priests and the church. No one needs to attack you anymore…you keep pissing in your own nest!
    jg

  20. Reality Checker says:

    Unfortunately he doesn’t have the self-awareness or self-insight to recognize and account for the damage he’s already done!!!

    SAD!…..and sick!

  21. JG says:

    …always thought these early morning “jabs” were organized, more than one person involved, as if after Sunday services a “group” were planning strategies…from an office type environment…seminary, “college”….where many handles, terminals are available to keep the trail blurred…one priest, “unlimited” handles or words to that effect he used early on in his “slight” of brain…???!!!
    Very lonely and scary priest I believe, if he is alone in this, with the “troubled conscience” to go along…
    jg

  22. Sylvia says:

    Resolution. I have received a personal email from Lostsheep2011. His last blog was his last. He apologizes. A truce has been declared. He will not be blogging any more.

    Now it’s time to move on 🙂 Please keep him in your prayers.

    • C1 says:

      Looks to me that this is again another example of priests allowed to act and say whatever they like without any guidelines as to what they can do or say established by the church given the atrocious comments and behavior he certainly should warrant some attention from the church who knows what other behaviors he exhibits.

    • Lina says:

      It’s so touching that this priest apologized.

      Nevertheless, this priest never apologized to me. I need to say this.

      Here is what I have to say to this priest.

      “You sir, are an immature, insecure closet gay priest. You use attack words to me in disguise that you were only having the best interests of the clergy abuse victims and the Borne family.

      It would be wise to seek professional help but first you need to face the reality it would do you some good to get this much needed therapy help to deal with your passive aggressiveness and inner fears…especially towards me.

      If you do not get a grip on this serious issue matter of yours, in what you are going through. You will continue to act in a very evil disrupted matter that does not reflect the conduct what a real good priest should be. ”

      Remember the words you once said: ” As for my brother, I’m not sure who he really thinks I am.”

      Remember Father….you started it!

      Now lets end it here and now! Peace!

      P.S. I am sick and tired to have clergy folks bully me throughout my life and trying to keep me in the fear mode. I will not let fear dictate what I am suppose to do. Enough is enough!

      Amen!

      Thank you!

  23. Reality Checker says:

    C1 – welcome back!!!

    …..this guy (priest) is certainly scarey!!! For the sake of the victims – don’t drop this Sylvia!
    The higher ups need to know what just occured and this fellow needs to be banned (or supervised) with computer use!!!

  24. Reality Checker says:

    PS….he backed off because he was afraid he’s be outed and NAMED!!! And you are the one that can do that Sylvia.

    Really think hard about this Sylvia…….you know where I stand.

  25. JG says:

    Mr. Ray Selbie…
    I almost replied to your first post on another tread, 23rd November, just before 8:00pm…but decided to “butt out”. I thought you had spent too much time in church and not enough time in court…I was going to refer to you as a “wannabe” priest…

    With your last post, I hear the same thing we have been hearing from the church about society’s ills, all of “our”responsibility…However you always find a way to nudge the church from any responsibility in the current mess, of their own making in great part…
    The catholic church is doing very well at destroying itself without anyone’s help…
    My question to you in view of your unwavering obedience and seemingly blind support concerns YOUR connection besides the “spiritual” claim…As a lawyer, do you have any financial connection, do you perform any work from your office for any diocese or congregation…Did the church pay for your Law degree and do you still feel you owe them…Just curious. Please don’t take it the wrong way. They have been known to pay for keeping “detractors” quiet…
    If you have no such conflict of interest, maybe in your set up of the ‘Commission” to cure all the problems that beset our society, you should use your talents to get “the church” to step up to the plate, with sincerity and truthfulness…for the first inning!
    Then you may find people to listen to the church.
    This is not coming from outside “the church”…I have not been excommunicated yet and it cannot be blamed on other religions trying to destroy the catholic church.
    I am of their creation…and every day “they” seem to want to push me and others further and further away…
    The catholic church does not hold the monopoly of the Lord’s benevolence, never did never will. Very simply.
    jg

    • TLWST says:

      Why hasn’t the entire Catholic church been investigated by the authorities? Can the police even do this?

      • Tim Dooling says:

        TWLST, or whatever- why are you hiding behind an acronym- are you playing the same game as lost sheep?, Your postings are more mixed up than a bag of multi-coloured jelly beans.
        Do you have a SINGLE question or line of questions dealing with one problem, or is it all mush ?

        • TLWST says:

          Hi Tim, my name is Tara Landry. My maiden name is Tara Code. I grew up in Pembroke my entire life. My mother is a Dupuis and her family was from Waltham. I just chose TLWST becuase Tara Landry and I am in Calgary now. I didn’t really put much thought into it. I know 2 victims that were affected by Robert Borne personally. I came across this website when I was looking for some sort of an update because it seems like the media was so silent on this topic. Sorry you don’t like my posts.

          • Lina says:

            Good for you Tara for speaking up for yourself.

            You write in a polite and tactful way.

            I for one do read your posts.

          • TLWST says:

            Thanks Lina.

          • JG says:

            Tara,
            This is late in coming, but I too had wanted to comment… on your first post I believe it was… At the end of it you said something to the effect that “…I didn’t know what to do, so I left…” That was last Wednesday I believe and the reason why I did not respond to Ray Selbie’s first post…Your comment reminded me of the Roman soldier who said he was “not worthy “…I had a smile on my face because of you…”such faith” I thought…the first to admit you needed help. Now you know, your words were not lost and the past week has been better for me because of you.
            jg

          • Tara: Are you related to Keith Code from Pembroke? Bishop Windle always told me he was one of the holiest mystics he had ever met. I knew him from my days at the Cathedral. I also was pastor in Chapeau and came to know a number of the Waltham Dupuis. You come from good stock!

            Fr. Tim

          • TLWST says:

            Yes he was my uncle, he died last year.

          • TLWST says:

            Father, Bishop Windle confirmed me, I just cannot believe he knew about molestation and kept it a secret. He was so kind, so soft spoken (or so it seemed to me). I want to do something to help these people I know but I always say or think the wrong thing and I feel very emotional right now.

          • TLWST says:

            Sorry Uncle Keith died in January of this year, anyway that is not important.

          • Tara: Fear not girl. We all are in the same place. The written word is pretty limiting in permitting us to express such deeply felt emotions. Without the context of tone, tenor etc., that the spoken word gives us, we have a difficult time in truly communicating what we want to say in a way that is clearly understood. It leaves us open to being misinterpreted. Believe me, you do as well as the rest of us.

            Thank you for telling me about Keith. I will remember him in prayer tonight. Further, I don’t know what Bishop Windle knew or didn’t know, but you are correct in saying that he was a kind and gentle man. He was the same with everyone and having lived with him for a few years, I can assure you of that! If anything, he desire to always see the good in everyone else may have blinded him to seeing evil. Such a focus can be used and manipulated by others. Nevertheless, if folks like him and your Uncle aren’t in heaven… the rest of us are in a great deal of trouble!

            Fr. Tim

          • Larry Green says:

            Tara I must apologize because I too was beggining to question the legitimacy of your claims. Sorry and Thank You for setting me straight!!!

          • Larry Green says:

            I too knew Keith very well and had the occasion to share some time with him in home where I did some work for him a few years back.He was often very open with me in sharing spirtual concerns he had for himself and others.

          • TLWST says:

            Thanks for your words Larry and Father.

        • TLWST says:

          The reason I started discussions on here was because I was thinking of suggesting this for a victim to read but I don’t think it is a good idea and I am planning to talk to Sylvia about that offline next week.

          I understand people are emotional on here. I just don’t understand how negative this is some seem to LOVE TO ATTACK at any opportunity. I didn’t realize there were rules to blogging when I started. I thought there was freedom of speech. I still think one of the main problems is the church’s and society’s view of homoesexuality but I am not allowed to talk about that issue either.

          I don’t like judging people and I beleive in forgiveness, sorry this is SO OFFENSIVE to you Tim.

          I have a huge issue with the Catholic church but I also don’t want to see it destroyed.

          This entire situation is so out of control, priests pretending to be other people while blogging, I don’t understand what the hell is happening.

          I get that this site is trying to get victims to come forward one at a time, but is it so wrong to ask if we cannot come up with a better plan? Ok, maybe Ray’s idea is wrong because this committee wouldn’t have enough power to do what needs to be done. If this was any other organization in the world the police would have infiltrated about started investingating. It has been clearly demonstrated now that this issue is out of control and the church is continuing to lie and hide so why is nobody doing anything to stop them?

          What do you want Tim, do you not want a solution?

          • Tim Dooling says:

            Tara, an aunt of yours is my sister-in-law!
            Yes, I want a solution, but one that is right in the eyes of God. God does not change with the times. What he ordained from the beginning of time as being right still pertains. God doe not change because He does not have to- He never has been wrong, so there is no need for change.
            The answer is not come to by leaving the Catholic Church, and then attacking it from outside- like many Jehova Witnesses do.
            I abhor sexual abuse no matter the ages, the genders, or the situations !
            When it is perpetrated by a Priest I am horrified by the actions of the Priest. I believe he should be punished to the full extent of the law.
            Having said that, I do not condemn the Church for what he did, but I am very much opposed to the cover-ups done by Bishops and fellow Priests. They should be punished as co-conspirators.
            Remember, the Church belongs to GOD- we are just members of HIS Church. GOD Bless. Tim

          • Tim Dooling says:

            Tara, we all move in small circles. I knew Keith, though not well. When I was first Married, Father Windle was the presiding Priest. When he became Bishop Windle, I paid for his first meal as a Bishop, which he shared with his sister and her husband, at a restaurant which I managed. I also saw him many times over the years.
            If he was not as saintly as I thought he was, then i was badly mistaken. Tim

          • TLWST says:

            Oh I just made the connection, my aunt Dallas. Small world. Well I am obviously struggling with my faith. I come from a very Catholic family, and so does my husband. Anyway, despite how it might seem, I am not trying to be disrespectful.

  26. Sylvia says:

    One comment on “healing” Ray. There will be no healing until the cancer is rooted out to the core. It’s no good to take a little swipe here and a little swipe there, always reluctantly doing what must and should be done kicking and screaming all the way. If it’s not rooted out it continues to grow.

    As for a Truth and Reconciliation commission, we have one travelling throughout Canada right now. From what I have heard, unless a perpetrator has been previously identified through legal action, criminal or civil, their names are not to be uttered. For a number of reasons I personally don’t agree with that approach.

    I still firmly believe that every clerical sexual predator must be identified, and those who are still living must be laicized/defrocked. Once that cancer is rooted out of the priesthood, then the healing can begin. Forgiveness is another matter. Forgiving a sexual predator does not warrant allowing him to continue to function as a priest. Forgive by all means, but get these men out of the priesthood. Even if it means housing them on the outskirts of town and providing food and a small stipend, get them out of the priesthood – they have proven themselves unfit.

  27. Lona Hegeman, Northwest Territories, Canada says:

    Tara: taking on an entire denomination is a tall order. I have no idea what the answer to that questions would be. I think this site does well in a) keeping track of what is going on in the (Canadian) world of RC Cleric sexual abuse; b) giving a voice to the voiceless victims of cleric sexual abuse; c) at times being a catalyst for change. My favourite example is Eric DeJager OMI. Read the story on this site ad learn that Sylvia as lead advocate got an abuser priest hiding in plain sight returned from Belgium to face justice in Canada. Amazing outcome which gives one courage.

    • TLWST says:

      Thanks I will read this now. Again I wrote when emotional and used the wrong words, I didn’t mean to say “can we not come up with a better plan” this website is amazing. I meant to say power in numbers, if we could all join forces and make something happen, naive thinking as you pointed out.

      A bit of humour, when Father Moyle first gave me words of wisdom to ponder, I was really upset, then I started laughing because I had a vivid memory of my father saying to me (somewhat affectionately) Tara you would be the perfect child if it wasn’t for your mouth (we disagreed on many topics). Point being, I need to be calm when I post so I am not using the wrong words.

      Tim, you had every right to ask who I was, if I had any common sense after that Happy Martin situation I would have introduced myself properly, I wasn’t thinking.

    • Reality Checker says:

      Don’t forget all the tireless effort Sylvia put into blogging the Cornwall Public Inquiry!!! Day in and day out Sylvia was there -watching and posting daily.

      Read up on the Cornwall Inquiry…..because that fiasco is what actually established this blog a number of years ago.

      • TLWST says:

        Yes I will. I am slowly reading everything on this site. Thanks.

      • Reality: Absolutely right! Every Catholic in Canada owes Sylvia a great debt of gratitude for her efforts. I have told her as much in private. I am very pleased to be able to say the same here. Thank you for raising the issue of all that she does. Her efforts are sometimes under appreciated, but not by those of us who comment on her blog.

        Fr. Tim

  28. Lona Hegeman, Northwest Territories, Canada says:

    I miss Happy Martin and all his imaginary friends.

    • JG says:

      Lona,
      I have to agree with you to a certain extent…I’d like now to get to hear from the real “Happy”, priest and all…I think he paid his dues, he got caught in a game in which he was trying to “survive”… If we are to talk about “forgiveness” and really mean it, I think this is a God given opportunity…He could be a different man if he did not have to pretend as he did…He should not have to live with the pain of total rejection. He ”fell” but I would like to see him stand again. On his own two feet.
      If the results aren’t coming from “the top”, maybe we need to place our Hopes near the foundation…
      jg

  29. JG says:

    Ray,
    Too bad my last posting from this morning was “timed out” I believe is the term used…too many phone calls, distractions, work!!!!…
    It could have started an interesting conversation…I was just confessing that in reality I enjoyed your posts although I can’t say I agreed with a lot of your comments…but that is the nature of a healthy dialogue…
    I was saying that I believe you are a good man, one who hurts more for the pain of others than he does for his own…although you are restricted by your need to “conform”…as opposed to my need to confront….we are products of our environment.
    I see you with white socks, still, and starched shirts…
    Regardless, I think there is a lot of good in you and we need all the help we can get to bring about some changes in this world…
    I told “prima facie” almost a year ago now that he and I could be good friends if we met in person…I think the same is true with you as well…although you could easily get annoyed with my irreverence ….but well intentioned it is!! …
    I think you are needed and would be a good influence in our “conversations”…
    I know where you come from and I see a lot of myself in you…but I have learned not to be so demanding of others;not as much as I demand of myself…
    Anyway, I have to say I hate it when anyone feels they can’t express themselves, when they feel pushed away, attacked…Everyone has something to contribute and no one should ever feel attacked personally…It is the nature of this medium.
    Remove your tie once in a while, put your feet up on the coffee table in your board room….and the world will not come to an end .
    Looking forward to reading …and disagreeing.
    Take care.

    jg

    • Ray Selbie says:

      jg
      I have never owned a pair of white socks but must confess that my wife does starch my shirts (one of her many acts of love towards me that are greatly appreciated)
      St. Augustine said “Freeedom is the choice of whose slave I will be”
      I know that my personal freedom was tested through many youthful attempts to rebel however, for many years, I have chosen to be the slave of Christ rather than the everchanging and fickle world. I also find that the one I now believe in is much less demanding of conformity and much more capable of forgivemess than was the Master that I once followed in my youth.
      I have always found those of liberal or freethinking bent much more inflexible and demanding of conformity-just read some of the past attacks on the Church, her good as well as evil members and the desires to burn and destroy rather than rebuild and comfort. I see anger as the main impetus for many.
      Ray Selbie

      • Larry Green says:

        Christ calls on no man to be His slave.There is one God and He is the God of all and Jesus is the Master ie. the teacher. He dosn’t love one group over another Mr Selbie.
        It is attitudes precisley like your own that was responsible for the slavery of Black People for centuries. It is the same evil attitude that is responsible for opprssion everywhere in the world against people outside your own ideology.
        For as long as you remain bent on propogating lies and propganda against any individual or class of individuals, I will be sure to at the best of my ability meet it with at least an equal force in order to water it down and stop it from spreading which is what are you are determined to do here.
        You can fit me into whatever category you would like to , I know where it is coming from and I am indifferent to your remarks toward or involving me. In your eagerness to carry on with your agenda you have failed to even acknowledge the fact that one of the victims of Borne – in which this site and in particular this thread pertains to- has commented on here. Common decency and respect really would be appreciated here.
        The Truth is very powerful Mr Selbie.

  30. Suzanne says:

    Tara: I; too; found this website; as I searched for updates after the charges were brought forth against Robert Borne. Beyond the court dates and all; the bloggers here have been a great source of comfort to me in understanding that such crimes had taken place in the Pembroke Diocese; through Sylvia’s daily posts I have come to understand more fully the extent of clergy who have abused their power and position. I have enjoyed reading your posts and you are applauded for dialoguing; expressing your feelings and asking questions…. As a result of finding this site I attended 3 days of the trial and it truly was an experience; much of it made me feel uncomfortable; beyond the victims who had to relive in the public domain what happened to them; the most uncomfortable part was sitting through Robert Borne’s testimony; as I came to realize by his responses that he was a totally different person than I had prevoiusly thought; ( I don’t mean in the good sense at all) BUT for me it brought some closure..as I hope it has to the two victims that were in court; I pray for all the others that were preyed upon and hope that they too can find some sort of comfort in the court outcome; will be waiting to hear the outcome of what happens when Robert Borne’s case goes to the Vatican……

    • Reality Checker says:

      Please recognize that what you are addressing and discussing on this blog is not NEW to many of the older bloggers on this site. We’ve been here from the begining. I may come across at times to new comers on this site as abrupt and bold. I only pop out of the woodwork once in a while especially when I see Sylvia attacked or one of the victims that I know -attacked. I gather I’ve become overly “protective” – heh Sylvia??? I’ve done what I needed to do so now’s the time to crawl back into my little hole 🙂
      To those who have not had the pleasure of knowing and/or meeting Sylvia – she is one amazing lady and has done so much in raising awareness on the issue of clerical sexual abuse. There’s alot on this site – read the testimony of the victims in Cornwall – read about Perry Dunlop – read the report – there’s so much more than just the accused page.
      As Sylvia so eloquently says …..enough for now.

      • Reality Checker says:

        Oh…..forgot…..it’s time to change my handle.
        Sylvia….what do you think about “PitbullwithLipstick” ???
        hehehe 😉 😉
        Hope your having a nice time!

    • Larry Green says:

      I have had the delightful privilege of meeting and chatting with not one but two lovely and fascinating women after the Borne trial when they were in Pembroke. It was such a great pleasure to meet Suzanne and Sylvia and I hated to let them leave. I’m so grateful Suzanne and Sylvia that you went out of your way to wait for me!!!
      I am curious Suzanne … did you get a chance to ask Marie if she remembers me?

      • Suzanne says:

        Marie does indeed have postive memories of you; Larry; she said a huge “hello”; Thank you for your kind comments; It was a great to pleasure to make your acquaintance; Sylvia sure is a dynamo who is determined to “get rid of the cancers”; her sheer grit is spreading so much awareness about clerical sexual abuse; & after the on-slaught of the last week; she does deserve a well earned break…..take care; hopefully when we meet again it won’t be after another clerical abuse court case; but who knows….eh?…as we say in “The Valley”?

  31. C1 says:

    TLWST I think I might know you is your mother a twin? Certainly Larry you could have met me as well after the Borne trial but I only spoke with Suzanne and Sylvia, like your spunk. Certainly anyone commenting on here who has a civil or criminal trial ahead should be aware that this site is indeed monitored and your words will be used in any trial. Tim Moyle I would be interested in meeting with you. As Suzanne has said Sylvia deserves many praises for her efforts and fortitude as we have no where else to go to get information but keep in mind the toll on the person collecting this information and reporting it is immeasurable as it is a public site.

  32. Larry Green says:

    C1: Yes, unfortunately I missed out on the opportunity to meet with you. I admire your tremendous courage C1; You will agree that it most certainly represents a giant leap toward the recovery from the injuries inflicted on you by Borne in that vulnerable period of your life. My hope and prayers for you are that you receive from this action everything needed to enable you to move forward to an accomplished and fulfilling life in every aspect of it.
    You must know that your courage has undoubtedly been a great source of inspiration to many other victims of clerical sexual abuse who live in silence. You have shown that these sexual predators can and must be brought to justice; Remove the pain and the suffering of silence and place it on the lap of it’s source , the one who needs and deserves it.
    You have also in no small way done a great deal of good for the Catholic Church ( even if they haven,t earned it) in exposing and removing this molesting pervert from the mix within.
    You have also reminded us that because we are human we are forever vulnerable and therefore, we are forever are in need of being united as brothers and sisters, we need each other always.
    Peace be with you C1.

  33. Leona says:

    To all of Sylvia’s site bloggers.
    I’d like to give my perspective on this past week’s comments. I have been following with interest the various threads of conversations this week, feeling like I wanted to jump in and comment at times, but constrained with other responsibilities that might keep me from being thoughtful in my postings, I decided to just sit back and listen.
    Like Tara, allow me to introduce myself. I became aware of this site back in April. I have been following it since then and when I’ve seen interesting posts I’ve followed them back as far as possible, to get some context for myself. I’ve spoken to Sylvia via phone on a few occasions. Some of you may know me from the posts I have made on the accused page of Fr. Jack McCann under the username of proudsurvivor. I am a born and raised west coaster, (still am) a former Catholic, (in addition to being a cantor, organist and choir director, I taught in the Catholic school system for 8 years), and a survivor of sexual abuse by Jack McCann. My only connection to Ontario is through Jack McCann himself. In 1979 he took 40 youth from St. Peter’s in New Westminster to St. Ann’s parish in Ottawa. My sister and I were billeted by the Dean family. I believe their father was a judge.
    Forgive me if I’m repeating myself, but with all of the rhetoric being bandied about on this site, I really feel as though I’m not being heard. Twenty years ago I believed I took the steps to have Jack McCann removed from his Catholic ministry. He was charged and convicted. I was horrified to discover through a Google search, last year that McCann was working in an Ottawa parish. His presence there, his image on the internet processing up the aisle of a church to say a Pro-Life Mass, shocked me to my core. It was difficult for me to wake up in the mornings and function at all. Once again, I summoned up the courage to do something, and I contacted SNAP who went to the media. I must say, I feel quite strongly, that if I hadn’t done the very difficult task of revealing his presence in Ottawa, many of you would still be attending masses that he was celebrating. You would be chatting with him at the socials, and perhaps he could even be hearing your confessions, and you would be none the wiser.
    In an earlier post, I made the connection to the time frame of McCann’s crimes, to that of Bornes. When McCann’s story came out in the press in May, the spokesperson for the oblates said he didn’t understand why victims kept bringing up these things that happened in the past. For me as I parent my 14 and 18 year olds, this issue is very much my present. Between the ages of 14 and 18 are the ages when we as human develop our personal identities. We grapple with our sexuality, our relationships with others, we learn who we can trust, and we begin to question our spirituality. These are all healthy stages that we must go through in order to discover our purpose and contribute meaningfully to society. As parents, we reflect on our own experiences as we make parenting decisions. To reflect on my experiences of these years only brings pain as it was these years that McCann stole from me. His skillful stalking of his victim through his frequent visits to our wonderful Catholic family home (he picked it well, there were 9 girls to choose from), began when I was just turning 12. His careful grooming ensuring that I would never tell.
    In the past few days, the conversations on this site have begun to sound like a family reunion, and I am just listening in, and yet, I feel related. To me, these same conversations are a part of our Catholic heritage. I feel at home, no matter how dysfunctional it may be. I thank Sylvia for her blog, and her opportunity for me to have a forum to speak openly. Twenty years ago, there was no internet. My voice felt like that lone voice crying in the wilderness. I’m sure that all the “good” families of our New Westminster parish all had their various reactions to my revelations, but I never heard a word. While all of this talk may be difficult for those who have just gone through the trial process, this dialogue is a huge help to me.
    So at this time, what does being a “good Catholic”, an “honourable woman” , “a kind man” etc. mean? This year, I couldn’t even bear to identify myself as a Catholic on the census. To know that for at least 20 years congregations could have done something about this, and they stuck their heads in the sand only allowed it to continue to grow and lie about it more and more. This is not God’s will. Where are the other Sylvia’s, the voices of those many “good Catholics” in creating a safer place for all, a spiritual place that we can truly call God’s house? If I come back to check in on my family in 20 years, what will I find?
    Thanks for listening.

  34. JG says:

    Yesterday was the second of December.Exactly one year to the day since judge bastarache’s assistant, marc sauvé(no capital letters, an old habit!…) spoke his first few words of deception on behalf of the catholic church…
    After the many games and the people with multiple names which came to light yesterday, I have decided to stay away…Seems we are going around in circles and personal attacks don’t resolve anything…
    I had many good “stories” and more information to share but right now…I don’t see the point. I will continue to work at making my part of the world better in my own simple way..
    I was interested in this tread because of my Pembroke connection…Some 40 years ago, almost to the day, all around Christmas time, I was traveling by bus with my brother to Combermere…after missing a transfer from Renfrew we ended up in Pembroke with no money. To make a long story short we decided to hitch-hike and found ourselves on a wood road, three foot snowbanks and cold to the bone…After about 3 hours of walking with light clothing, no gloves…not dressed for this December night in Ontario, we began to fear we were going to die on that road…I prayed and so did my brother…At some point, we started to distinguish a faint glow in the distance and has we got closer we realized it was a street light…As we got closer, a small white church became outlined in the frosted air… My brother said he was not going to break in, that all churches were locked…We argued a bit and he kept on walking as I walked to the church…I grabbed the door handle and the door opened…I ended up turning the furnace on and we slept on the warm air ducts…In the morning, a few miles down the road, the first house was the caretakers…I remember it was yellow, a farm house..He said it was OK preferred this to finding our bodies…
    The church that probably saved us with its”trusting” open door was not a Catholic church but a United or Baptist Church…didn’t dwell on it at the time.
    WE made it to Combermere, (that caretaker drove us there) and stayed through Christmas and until mid to end of January.
    My brother was asked to leave “Madonna House” because he was “upsetting” the community(flirting with “Kaye” I seem to recall)…’I could stay because I was a “good worker”…Anyway, we were given two bus tickets to get out of town…after I questioned their Faith, for sending away the one who was “disturbing” the established order…We landed in Regina…
    My faith has carried me all my life, I have been spared (and my family) so many times…I have NO doubt , but I have many reasons as well to believe that you can’t slice God under so many different “flags”…we all hold a piece of the truth!..

    Just a story among a lifetime of experiences in His presence…
    Open minds will have to prevail…anger and bigotry will have to be replaced with patience and respect…
    Signing off.

    Peace of Christ with you, regardless of your beliefs or affiliation.
    Happy Christmas
    jg.

  35. Wow! What powerful testimonies. Many thanks to JG and Leona. You both capture an essential essence that many of we clergy types have yet to fully discover: that openness to God and faith does not require a Church. Churches are nothing more but instruments to bring people to God and God to people. It is not a good in itself. Protecting the Church at the expense of victims – or, as in the case of McCann – leaving predators in place to prey on future victims is not reflective of God’s will nor human good.

    I am humbled by the power of your witness to the true power of faith. Please pray that more priests and Bishops might be open to the same spirit that animates your faith today despite the wounds inflicted upon you by men claiming to represent Christ. Such faith will be the only thing that propels to the Church to finally clean up its act and act as the Bride of Christ that it is called to be.

    Sincerely,
    Fr. Tim

  36. Larry Green says:

    THIS is wisdom – spread the truth! Your sincerity is clearly visible here Fr. Tim and very beautifully said !
    Amen.

    • C1 says:

      Thanks Larry for your comments, Leona I feel what your feel, again as per my last post certainly do not fall for anything Tim Moyle or anyone that states they are a priest says on here, his motives I question, simply because as I know and does Tim Moyle who is indeed a priest, they are restricted in what they can say and I question who he really is working for simply because they are not allowed to express what he is doing, I suspect he is appointed to calm down the masses and make you feel like you can believe in a priest again, remember the collection plate is all important, as per my last post I invited him to meet with me and he does not address that as I knew he would not, certainly there is no outlet for any of us to express what has happened to us, Sylvia has done this, no words can express on my part the gratitude to her for giving a forum as I thought I was alone.

      • Larry Green says:

        C1, May I ask, how are you doing with all of this? Are there people in your life ( family , freinds, proffesionals) that you can rely to listen when you need talk. This site can be a valuable tool for you but it isn’t enough to replace the support you need in your ‘real’ life surroundings. You need a good ear to listen to you and it;s important in a face to face setting because there is more likely than not a need for you to express things that words alone cannot. Does that make any sense to you C;1 ?

      • C1: I am appointed by no one. I post here, on the National Post and on my own blog of my own volition. I speak my mind here and elsewhere. Ask Tim Dooling… he seems to have the ear of some priests from my Diocese. (grin)

        Fr. Tim

        • C1 says:

          Tim Moyle, you are appointed by the diocese to speak on here and monitor don’t even try to say otherwise but meet with me and we can discuss it, and certainly again I would advise anyone who thinks they are speaking to Tim Moyle that he is here with a agenda from the diocese, remember Tim when you made comments that I should speak to Proulx the priest which I never did big supporter of Borne he is certainly the Toronto Sun had a picture of them hand in hand back in July, and my observation of him at the court and my wife who could not wait to get away from him was disgusting.

          • C1: All that I can offer you is the truth. The ONLY responsibility that I have in the Diocese is to be parish priest here in Mattawa. Peter Proulx is the only priest that deals with sex abuse cases and Bruce Pappin is the only diocesan spokesman. I can appreciate your reticence to believe me as you have no reason the trust anyone from the Diocese given what you’ve been through, but believe me when I tell you that you are mistaken. I cannot offer than that.

            Fr. Tim

          • C1 says:

            No Tim you cannot offer more than that and you artfully dodge meeting with me which as you claim to operate “independently” should not be a problem now should it and of course you quote what you are told to Pappin and Proulx, I think you should retire from commenting on here you have been exposed as to what you really are here for.

          • Anthony says:

            C1,
            How can Fr.Tim meet with a person who does not show any respect to him as a priest? I mean you address him as ‘Tim”
            Anthony

          • C1: I will gladly meet you next time I’m in Pembroke! Perhaps Larry or Sylvia might arrange the meeting for us?

            If it would allay your concerns, you could search the Observer site for a bit of evidence as to my standing with the Diocese. It published a letter from me in which I called out the bishop and called him a coward. That pretty much ended any chance I had of ever having any sort of responsibility beyond pastor here in Mattawa. In the same vein, you could check out my blog. You will find there an open letter that I sent to every Bishop in the country asking them to NOT support +Lahey and to move for his removal. Finally, I offer the fact that I was a protection worker with the CAS for years in Pembroke/Petawawa prior to my entering the seminary. These bits might stand as pieces of evidence as to the truth of my intentions here.

            Fr. Tim

  37. Larry Green says:

    What is the explanation Fr. Tim for you referring C1 to speak with Proulx before the trial while Proulx was supporting Borne throughout? What in the name of God kind of ridiculous mess has this been.
    This needs to be addressed; a detailed explanation if there can possibly be one.
    Was this whole thing designed by the diocese to “trick” the victims?
    If you did not know that Proulx was a supporter of Borne’s , should you not have? Were you aware at that time that Proulx and Borne were potentially involved a romantic relationship with one another?
    How damage could have resulted if C1 would have followed your advice in this regard ?
    Holding out on any of this does absolutely nothing to advance any movement toward healing for any victim and in particular to C1 in this case. It serves only to destroy any attempt to even begin to restore -for victims and all for that matter- faith and trust in the church or in the priesthood.
    We need to hear now that you are committed to transparency in this matter and we need to hear transparency clearly defined by yourself.

    • Larry: You could probably search the site for the actual comment, but I always recommend anyone with allegations to contact Peter Proulx. He is the person mandated by the diocese to deal with such allegations. Note too that this was offered before the court proceedings in which he demonstrated that he viewed his role as being a support of the accused. At the time I made the suggestion, it was understood among the priests that his role was to support the victims. It is understandable that things evolved as they did since the victims did not want to deal with him. All that was left for him to do was walk with Borne!

      You know this diocese, Larry. The strategy implied by C1 implies sophistication and deft planning and thought. Does that sound like our Chancery office to you?

      Fr. Tim

  38. Larry Green says:

    Fr. Tim: If you are not willing to meet with C1 , can you not at least say so one way or the other ?
    Why are you dodging his request as he has indicated. Are you afraid of him ? Are you really concerned about the ‘victims?’ I don’t see any money where the mouth was.
    The gap between church and victim just keeps getting wider as we speak.

    • C1 says:

      Thanks Larry that is the point I was getting to with Tim Moyle and certainly I will have a lot more to say about Tim Moyle as I should have before, before he continues to act as he has been instructed to do, keep in mind there are numerous priests in the pemborke diocese only Tim Moyle is speaking and there is a reason for that.

      • C1: You are correct on your last point. I am the only priest blogging because I am the only one with the balls to do so. I have always spoken my mind with Bishops, priests and laity and as a result, I have nothing to lose! I will NEVER be anything beyond a parish priest (thank God!). Ask Larry if there have been other priests like me who served at the Cathedral who so openly spoke his mind. There is a reason why my career as a priest has been in the outbacks of the diocese! (BTW, I am very happy with this last fact. I would rather deal with real people than clerical politics!!!) 22 years a priest of the diocese and I’ve been able to avoid being on every committee as well ever being on the Priest Council. I consider that to be a major success on my part!

        Fr. Tim

        • Lina says:

          Father Tim Moyle,

          I remember some posting being done at your website around the first time charges were brought up against Monsignor Robert Borne.

          I remember reading a post that you said you helped/counseled one time a victim of Borne’s. It’s obvious it’s not C1.
          What ever happened to this victim of Borne? Is he dead or just decided not to go ahead to the police?

          • Lina: He declined to pursue criminal charges. He felt that it would only bring him more grief. I tried to convince him otherwise, but ultimately it was his decision to make. Given the media reports of what the two victims who did come forward went through on the stand, he was probably right. At least some did come forward and another predator has finally been removed from the ministry.

            Fr. Tim

          • Lina says:

            Yes…this victim of Borne has that right not to pursue criminal charges.

            Only God knows how many more victims of Borne are out there.

            How does Monsignor Robert Borne sleep at night?

            Does he care what he has done and committed? If he cared he would do the right thing confess and take responsibility for all wrongs and crimes he took part in against the innocents.

            All you priests (at least some) who knew Monsignor Borne must have been shock at the news as well as all the folks that knew him in the Pembroke Diocese.

            At least he won’t be made Bishop.
            Many around Pembroke believed Borne would had made it.
            If that was one of Borne’s dreams at least that’s one plateau he will not reach.

            Thanks to the two victims of Borne that came forward. They got justice. They got to alert folks he is a sexual predator and not fit to be a priest, let alone Borne will not become a Bishop.

            Thank you C1 and C2.

            Good night!

  39. Leona says:

    C1
    Thanks for the words of caution. I’m not so easily fooled anymore. It would take something rather substantial for me to fall for the words of a priest. Fr. Tim’s online “ministering” comes across as rather patronizing at times, and it concerns me when he feels a need to jump in and chastise another blogger. There really is truth to the adage “actions speak louder than words”. In this online world it always seems to me to ignore those such as Tim Dooling that just seem to criticise others. Responding to them only seems to inflame the situation. Continuing to respond in a positive way can provide a model for them and they’ll learn to self-regulate much like my kindergarten students do. It would seem like someone trained in counselling an human spirituality would understand that and behave accordingly.

    • C1 says:

      Well said Leona thank you, I am only concerned that people are believing Tim Moyle who is saying all the right words without really knowing what his agenda really is, certainly like you it would take any priest many words to say for me to go along with anything hence my invitation to Tim to meet with me which of course he cannot go along with.

      • Larry: Set up the meeting! I’m usually at my cottage on Mondays (but not tomorrow due to John McElligott’s funeral services here.) I’ll be there! I don’t even know who C1 is. You do, so help set things up. Maybe we could meet at your place? It would be great to see you and Arden again.

        Fr. Tim

        • Larry Green says:

          Fr. Tim:
          If you really do feel it would be nice to see me and my wife again feel free to drop in any time at all, it’s been at least 18 years.
          But take it one meeting at a time Fr. Tim, you are being paged ; should you not answer the call.

          You are very clearly worked up over this request from
          C1 ; I don’t know if he is bewildered by your reaction but I sure am!!! C1 hasn’t asked to meet with me or my wife or my son or my daughter and I have no idea why you think he should. But I can say that if he does express any such desire to meet , he and I will make the arrangements in a flash and we will get each others e-mail to do so through Sylvia. I will not ask anyone else to make our arrangement to meet , period. It’s obvious that C1 has something to say to you specifically , why do you come across as being so afraid? Are you afraid to be alone with him? If so , why not just say so. Are you afraid what the bishop will say if he finds out that you are meeting with him? If that is the fear that binds you then the image you have portrayed of yourself has completely vanished.

          • Larry: How am I to arrange such a meeting if not through someone who knows who he is? There is no listing for C1 in the phone book and I don’t have his email address (which he should certainly NOT publish here unless he wants lots of unwanted messages from God knows whoever). If it is not through the agency of someone he trusts (which I assume he does with you since you have met before) how are we to connect.

            And yes, I am worked up. I am damned well worked up indeed! I’m being slandered here and slammed within the Diocese. Would you not be in the same state if you were in my position? I am perfectly willing to take my punishment for things I have done wrong. I do not appreciate receiving the same for things that are not my responsibility or fault.

            It is indeed time for me to fade back into the background here. Clearly I am not doing any good.

            I look forward to seeing you soon. My best to Arden.

            Fr. Tim

          • C1 says:

            Certainly Tim you are not even close to being worked up as I am or anyone that has suffered at the hands of a priest, also you very well know what my name is and as Larry said I never asked him to organize a meeting just you and me that is simply done by letting sylvia know your email address which she prob has and I will ok her to release mine to you just that simple, glad to know you have a cottage, certainly publish all your works on your efforts against the diocese of Pembroke and it’s wayward priests for all to view.

          • C1: Both Larry and Sylvia have my contact info, including my email. Feel free to contact me directly and I’ll be happy to make your acquaintance. FYI, no priest (other than Peter Proulx) knows your name. That includes me. We have not received any information from the Diocese regarding the Borne case aside from being told the date of his trial. That’s why I was asking Larry to act as a facilitator to bring us together. What you suggest will accomplish the same end without having to involve him or anyone else.

            I look forward to hearing from you if for no other reason than to apologize to you if I have caused you and grief or pain with my comments. That has never been my intention.

            Fr. Tim

  40. Ceilidhe says:

    I am a life-long cradle Catholic who is becoming more and more disillusioned with the church. At mass on Saturday night, using the ‘new’ language of the mass for the first time, it occurred to me as I said, ‘because I have greatly sinned…’ that I really haven’t. I wanted to say ‘because YOU have greatly sinned!’ I have never molested a child, nor have I covered for those who have! I’m living a good clean life and my sins are very minor, venial sins. The new language is ridiculous!

    As I struggle with my faith and belief in the Catholic Church, I have not used my church envelopes since it came to light that the diocese knew that Bernard Prince was a child sexual predator and covered it up. Until the Catholic Church feels the financial impact of their actions, they will not rid themselves of child sexual predators! They protect their money but not our children. Anyone who does not believe this to be true……look how fast they recently removed a parish priest just outside of the city of Ottawa when he was caught skimming money from the collection. It was all hushed up of course, but he immediately ‘retired’. How sad that they don’t take complaints about their priests molesting our children as seriously as they protect their money! Until we ALL stop giving money, this will continue….

    • Tim Dooling says:

      Ceildehe, I could not agree more with you about what needs to happen in order to make the Church pay attention.
      Starting las Sunday I started putting 2 cent in the envelope, signifying my 2 cents worth of didain for the coverups. Spread the word. I sent letters last Monday to the Editor of both the Citizen and the Ottawa Sun on the matter, but they refused to print them.

      • C1 says:

        Certainly Tim I will based on your comments that you are allowing Sylvia to release your email to me and I will do likewise with her, there is no attempt to trap you on my part Tim it will just be little old me you are free to bring whoever you like I understand.

  41. Cheryl-Helene Thomson says:

    For Leona – I am writing a note to you here, rather than on “Dialogue”, because this thread here is more recent, and I was negligent in not replying to your comments about the testimony of the Catholic writer Michael O’Brien, which I shared. You were so right to be sensitive to a possible ‘blaming the victim’ aspect to O’Brien’s story — truly, he seemed to think his mother’s prayers, and his own radical change to a committed prayer life, protected him from that monster Houston. I would totally disagree with him, if that really represents his views, but I admit I also am not sure where he stands. I am completely new to his work. On the whole subject generally, well personally, I start off with the truism: “Bad things happen to good people.” From there, I recognize the omnipotence of God. I really think these horrible things that happen to many (and who doesn’t really have nightmares about the past, one way or another?) – these horrible things are part of THIS life. And this life is short. Eternity is long. God is here with us through all the pain, and yes, He allows it to happen. But I somehow have come to trust God’s goodness, whatever happens, and I believe that His understanding of the complex layers-within-layers of all our experiences will ultimately give us the peace that we are seeking so hungrily, and sometimes in despair. We don’t have the answers, or at least only some of them. But He has them all. Thank you for bringing me up short, to realize I should have thought more deeply about the ramifications of O’Brien’s testimony before I posted it. Also, at the time I saw your comments, I didn’t have any idea who you were, of what your experiences have been. Maybe Sylvia could think about setting up a new page (lol) with short ‘bios’ for posters, giving only assumed names or real ones, whatever. I guess it might just be me — I can’t keep people straight.

    • Leona says:

      Cheryl-Helene,

      Thanks for taking the time to respond. I went back and read my initial response to your comment, and realized that a reader could take it that I still wonder if I didn’t say the right number of Hail Mary’s etc., and that is so far from the reality that I believe. I truly believe in God’s masterful plan for my life. I fully recognize the many places where the spirit is working in my life. Had I not been a survivor, I wouldn’t be commenting on this issue right now. I wouldn’t have likely met my wonderful husband, and I accept that God has a much bigger plan for my life than I could ever imagine. I know for sure I”d likely still be working in a Catholic school, living a narrow, sheltered life. I’ve had the pleasure of working with so many families from so many walks of life and different faiths that it enriches my own spirituality. I no longer see the world in black and white, but in the many, many shades of grey that our creator has left here for us to enjoy. I am not bitter about what happened to me, I just want to use those experiences to bring truth into my life and the lives of others.
      I recognize that it wasn’t your intent to hurt. In commenting, it was only a concern I had that such thinking could be harmful to victims who could still be thinking it was their fault.
      Thanks again

  42. Sylvia says:

    Monsignor Robert Borne’s sentencing hearing starts at 10 am, Tuesday, 10 April 2012. It will be held in either courtroom #3 or #5 – the actual courtroom number will be shown on the board in the courthouse entrance.

  43. Suzanne Herrick-Lee says:

    Nine month conditional sentence; indeed!!! Actually; my gut was expecting this….however; what really sickens me are the 59 letters of support!!!!! Were any of the authors of those letters in court to hear the testimony that lead to a GUILTY verdict?? The victim”s testimony was described by the judge as being “scuppriuosly honest”..Msgr Borne’s evidence exposed him as being a very “different” persona than he exemplified in the Diocese…. Authors of those letters need to reflect what their attitiude would be if it had been their son who was sexually abused by this man…Next time; go to the court and hear the testimony before you write letters of support of someone who leads a double lifestyle…how insulting to the victims!!! Tut Tut; indeed!!!

  44. Glen says:

    Such a sad story. Nine months is not sufficient. Someone needs to put pressure on the courts and politicians to increase sentences for these crimes.

    Another thought, it strikes me as odd to read these accounts of pedophiles molesting children while over-nighting together. Who sends their child over-night with a priest/coach/teacher/boy scout leader/Michael Jackson etc?

    • Sylvia says:

      Years ago people trusted their priests Glen. Never in their wildest dreams would parents have though that a priest would stoop to such depths as to sexually molest anyone, let alone their sons.

      I would truly like to say that now that people know what can happen and has happened to children in such situations that things have changed. That alas is not the case. The difference between now and then however is vast – it is virtually impossible these days for parents not to be aware of the sex abuse scandal in the Church.

  45. Sylvia says:

    There were a few comments from this thread which disappeared in the midst of the big site fix yesterday. I think I have found and re-posted them – I was unable to post them at the time at which they were originally posted, but they are back.

    If anyone posted something yesterday which has disappeared please contact me so that I can find it and re-post. My apologies for this glitch – I think everything is now in hand.

  46. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    Has anyone heard /seen Mr. Borne lately? He seems to have faded into the woodwork. mike.

  47. Ceilidhe says:

    I saw him in the Pembroke Walmart one day in January. I looked the other way.

  48. Mike Fitzgerald says:

    Thanks, Ceilidhe! I guess I could call myself and find out about him. I was just curious if he’s still around, and if his faculties have been removed. (Ooops, that didn’t sound right) I mean, is he still saying mass, is he attached to a parish, etc. I hope not. Mike.

  49. Ceilidhe says:

    I saw Bob Borne coming out of the Pembroke Mall with his mother early Friday evening. I turned my head.
    Do we know anything yet on his situation? I mean, as far as his ‘file’ being sent to Rome for defrocking, I know there is another official word for it but I can’t spell it.

  50. Lina says:

    I don’t know what has happened to Msgr. Robert Borne’s case.

    Maybe the Vatican has a large back log of all those abuse files going on against its clergy and a change of Pope has something to do with it?

    If you knew Msgr. Robert Borne…what would you or any person say to him if they came face to face with him at a grocery store or in an elevator?

    What would be appropriate thing to do?

  51. Ceilidhe says:

    Hi Lina,

    I know Bob Borne and I look the other way when I see him. I have no desire to say anything to him and I sure wouldn’t be calling him Msgr. or Fr. because he doesn’t deserve either of those titles! The sight of him makes me feel sick because he symbolizes everything that is wrong in the Catholic church!

    Ceilidhe

    • Lina says:

      Ceilidhe,

      I’m sure many people as well as myself do get what you are saying Ceilidhe.

      I believe you are wise not start any conversation with Msgr. Borne.

      Msgr. Robert Borne, he had everything going for him. It was just a matter of time he would had been made a Bishop. Luckily, his dark-side was revealed by courageous victims of his.

      Msgr. Borne is bless to still have his earthly mother with him.

      I am so sorry what happened to ALL his victims and their loved ones. That include those for whatever reason were not able to come forward.

      Lina

  52. Sylvia says:

    I have just added the following document which gives more information about Monsignor Borne’s activities:

    29 November 2011: R v Borne Reasons for Decision ( Judge denies Crown motion to admit evidence of other discreditable conduct by Father Robert Borne at the priest’s trial)

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