Nine victims opt out of compensation report, seek court battle
Last Updated: Monday, November 1, 2010 | 5:19 PM AT
CBC News
Michel Bastarache, a retired Supreme Court of Canada justice, on Monday delivered his compensation report for victims who were sexually assaulted by Roman Catholic clergy in northern New Brunswick. (Jacques Boissinot/Canadian Press)
Former Supreme Court justice Michel Bastarache met with the bishop of the Diocese of Bathurst on Monday to present his recommendations for compensation for victims of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy in northern New Brunswick.
Bastarache, the bishop and the lawyer for the Diocese met behind closed doors, refusing to speak with reporters. Both sides had previously been open to speaking with the media.
The diocese hired Bastarache earlier this year after Levi Noel, an 84-year-old former priest, was convicted of 22 sex-related offences and Charles Picot, a former priest who had worked in Dalhousie, was charged with indecent assault. Picot’s trial has yet to take place.
Bastarache’s report is the final step in a conciliation process that was aimed at avoiding a court battle. But nine of the 45 victims Bastarache met with opted out of conciliation.
Robert Talach, an Ontario-based lawyer who is representing some of those victims who still want a court battle, said there is a feeling among many of the individuals that they are tired of taking orders from the Catholic church.
“It’s a system, which has been dictated to them by the diocese, and for many of them they feel that the days of being dictated to by the diocese are over with,” Talach said.
“Some of them went to the diocese in the past and got no appropriate response, so they’ve lost faith in that institution doing the right thing.”
One lawsuit has been launched already, and he said more are in the works.
“Victims want a transparent open and public process. Not all of them want their identity out there, but they want the size and nature and details of the problem public,” Talach said.
“That system that the diocese proposed does not have that element.”
Donald Landry, one of Noel’s victims, said handing out money is not the answer.
“From the beginning, transparency has been missing, and now they think they can give compensation. We feel it’s their way of trying to make us forget, to put us aside, but abuse isn’t something you can put aside and forget,” he said.
“We will work to make sure that new incidents don’t happen, that they never happen again. Unfortunately, the risks are always there. We want to protect the rights of children and stop sexual abuse of children. This will be difficult because the diocese has never wanted to meet with us before. They haven’t been transparent.”
Compensation package
Bastarache said in an interview last week that in his meetings with victims, it was revealed that other priests in the diocese, who have not been named, or charged, have also been accused of abuse.
The retired Supreme Court justice handed in a report to the bishop outlining how many people have come forward and how much each person should be compensated.
Bastarache designed a compensation package that set out a scale for potential payment.
He set up five categories of alleged assaults that range from unwanted touching to sexual assault. He then created subcategories that dealt with the long-term consequences of the assaults, such as the individual’s inability to finish school, whether they were able to hold a job or, in some cases, their decision to attempt suicide.
Bastarache said he then reviewed various legal precedents for compensation given to other sexual assault victims to come up with a payment range.
It will be up to the bishop to decide how much money will be paid out to the victims, and whether the information will be made public.
Once the church makes its compensation decision, Bastarache said he will hand out the cheques by the end of November or into December.
Under the terms of the conciliation process, Bastarache agreed to keep the names of the victims anonymous, so the church will not see the names and the retired judge will personally hand out the cheques.
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Dennis Brady wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 10:25 PM ET
OISEDUC wrote:
Atropa: You are seriously confused. There is not one single convicted priest still in active service in Canada.
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How many convicted pedophiles are still in active service is inconsequential and irrelevant. What is consequential and relevant is how many as yet unconvicted ones are still in active service and MOST IMPORTANTLY how many known to the church pedophiles have as yet not be turned over to civil authorities for secular prosecution.
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NoWayMan wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:40 PM ET
Personally, I would never let my kids anywhere near a church.
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OISEDUC wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:12 PM ET
Atropa: You are seriously confused. There is not one single convicted priest still in active service in Canada. The last known case of abuse by a priest in this country was in 1981. You can check this out. Just to be allowed to take a senior citizen to his doctor’s appointment I had to go through a rigorous interview and provide a police check printout. No convicted priest is allowed anywhere near a church.
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Bruin Lover wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:06 PM ET
I posted twice on this article and neither one of my posts has appeared here, probably because I mentioned that 3 of my brothers were abused by a priest that was moved around from parish to parish. As soon as any word got out, he was moved to a different location to abuse again. Bishops, Cardinals, and I’m sure the Pope knew what was going on.
FAIRGUY, I find your post offensive. When you advise the “bigots” to do their research you are insulting everyone that has suffered at the hands of these criminals. We don’t have to do any research, we lived it. By the way, a lot of those priests are still living and have never done one day of jail time even though convicted.
You can defend your faith all you want but don’t expect others to do the same.
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Atropa wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 7:55 PM ET
Fairguy – I AM a Catholic, and it is the defense of my faith that demands that I NOT defend pedophiles or an institution that is guilty of aiding and abetting the sexual torture of children. It was through the practice of my faith that I encountered TWO pedophiles in my home church. If you see a demand for truth and justice, and ensuring our children are safe as an attack on your faith, you’d better go stand with the Pharisees. No, things have NOT changed, rules and procedures are in place, but priests continue to be protected from the rule of law by church administration. This is not something that happened in the past, but an institutionalized form of abuse that continues to threaten our kids.
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VerbTheAdjectiveNoun wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 5:35 PM ET
luxwolf: Are you trying to blame a more global society for child abuse? News flash: That ain’t the problem. The problem is allowing people like that to get a position of power over others and abuse it, then try to cover it up.
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Johannorous1 wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 5:00 PM ET
Just recently Col. Williams of the military shocked the Canadian public, and whispers could be heard about the personnel in the military, and how trust would be hard to gain back after those haineous crimes.
I think we all know that 99.8 per cent of the Military are trusting and honest.
Same here, with the Catholic church. Personally I think Jail time should be given to this individual, and a revue of the hiring practices by the Catholic church. I read Fairguys post, and we have to be sure their hiring protocols are as good as the RCMPs.
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OISEDUC wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 4:23 PM ET
Fairguy: Right on!
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fairguy wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 3:19 PM ET
Atropa wrote
I call upon the RCMP to demand the church in Canada release the names of all priests who hurt children to the Canadian public. Then THROW THEM IN JAIL.
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there is so much ignorance in these posts…if any of you big0ts actually took the time to do some research you would find that most priests who committed these crimes are either long deceased or are near death….these are NOT NEW CASES, the RC Church has had strict protocols in place for many years, including police checks for anyone who wants to work at the parish level….by the way the incidents of clerical abuse in the RC church is NO higher than the incidence in society at large…your post Altropa makes it sound like are there are thousands on a hidden list somewhere, when there simply isn’t..put your hatred away and do some research..and all you apathetic Catholics out there stand up for God’s sake and defend your faith!
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ZeeBeeSee wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 2:38 PM ET
Mad_Matt wrote: 11/01 at 9:52 AM
“Abusers are abusers no matter who they are and should pay for their crimes like everyone else in this world. Money settlements pfff. I say prison for abusers.”
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Money MAY help victims in dealing with their burden.
If compensation is sufficient to replace punishment for priests, maybe Bernardo or Olson could pay some money and get out of jail? What’s the diff?
No I’m not advocating that, just pointing out the ridiculousness of it all.
Jail the perverts, whether they be priests, teachers, coaches, whatever!
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JeffXavier wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 2:14 PM ET
why is this story not closed to comments? every comments are basicaly the same and most of them are just plain rediculious.
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fairguy wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 1:54 PM ET
to Dennis Brady:
I am just wondering what you have been doing with yourself lately, I notice you don’t comment on anything but anti-Catholic garbage…..I have been taking bets about whether I would see a post from you, BC terry or Vain Zero….I guess I won again…I will donate my winnings to a good cause
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Atropa wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 1:47 PM ET
I call upon the RCMP to demand the church in Canada release the names of all priests who hurt children to the Canadian public. Then THROW THEM IN JAIL.
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luxwolf wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 1:36 PM ET
tip of the ice-berg for the new brunswick and the maritime provinces i would suggest.
prolongation to court-battles involving such histories are legally advised i would suggest and may have secret intentions of two legal devices, i can imagine. … one. to seek to revise vatican privileges with regards to medias.
for the vatican and governing institutions want to hear nothing about children and authorities of morality in the future, so look for sanctions by authorizations which enable future mishaps to be non-disclosed by legal privileged. finally, to bring the charitable organizations more completely into governing body camps.
and two. no further monetary compensations to be paid out where “forgiveness” satisy the abused, and abusive.
but as i say. there are far more victims of church and state secret and authoritative aligned abuses created out of solomons dilemma with regards to child-care and protection than any court room of sexually abused shall ever hold. but not the church or state authorities will want to visit with conditions of transformation from agronomic communities into industrializations and technologies nor from social integrations of women children and men into such social engineering feats.
maybe when the church fore-goes its interest in the economic pillar it shall see its congregations dwindle to such low interest that few children shall ever enter there.
and maybe they shall agree to continue to have and erect greater idols of economy and performance to pose as (secret) moralists to keep the esteems and incomes coming into their vast immobile secret communications empires.
and maybe us which are born in this nation will be permitted to speak lovingly and freely, if controversially, and be permitted to retain a legal advisor.
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OISEDUC wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 1:04 PM ET
Fairguy has a point though. The problem of sexual abuse of children is far worse among members of the teaching profession – more than 10 times worse if we go by published statistics (Boston Chronicle). The Ontario College of Teachers publishes the “Blue Pages” in its bi-monthly publication and every time there are a dozen or more recent cases coming to light. Cover up was the norm until the 1980s when it became illegal. The reason for this was that in those days no one thought victims of sexual abuse would suffer any long-term effects unless violence was involved. The perpetrators were seen as sick individuals and THEY were the ones given treatment and counseling. I recently spoke to the man who’s job it was to relocate these these abusive Ontario teachers in safer schools to give them a second chance. At that time, it was thought to be the right thing to do.
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HeerMe0ut wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 12:00 PM ET
“Nine victims opt out of compensation report, seek court battle”
awesome news! the courts aren’t taking this case (or any Vatican-related ones) seriously enough. These are criminal charges and the victims deserve to see justice!
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Dennis Brady wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 11:54 AM ET
rbc1965 wrote
If the Clergy was out of control during the 60s 70s and 80s,What exacltly was the Police doing during this period?
I am very sure the Police received complaints and why were they not acted upon at the time instead of allowing the monsters to run amok?? The Government is just as responsible for covering these crimes up,just as responsible as the Priests and the Vatican.
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The Government continues to be responsible for an irresponsible failure to force civil prosecution of both the offenders and the cover up participants. Permitting the Catholic Church to just buy off the victims is ethically, morally, and legally as repugnant as the antiquated Catholic practice of selling indulgences that initiated the creation of the Protestant Reformation. With the Catholics, everything revolves around money. I’ve always wondered how they rationalize their presumption God needs so much of it.
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KenDavies wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 11:34 AM ET
The question should be —- is it true and if yes the Church that teaches all the BS should be taken over sold off and all the top Church people be sent to jail for life. The reason being is that they do not think they are wrong in any of the areas they play in.
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ZeeBeeSee wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 11:34 AM ET
fairguy wrote:Posted 2010/11/01 at 9:58 AM
“of course (the article should be open to comments), it fits nicely into CBC’s anti- Catholic policy, let the bigots and hate mongers post all sorts of garbage about the Catholic faith, but when other stories about sexual abuse done by people in other Chruches, professions, or sports, close them to comments…CBC you make me sick!
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Surely you do not suggest that therefore this should be swept under the rug?
Of course we should demand full disclosure and appropriate punishment of ANY groups that you mention, and all others including non-RCC religions, that engage in child abuse. And yes, hiding the facts when it’s a Mosque or Synagogue instead of a Church is intellectual cowardice.
CBC, Fairguy is right – you need to step up to the plate in those cases too!
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rbc1965 wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 11:21 AM ET
If the Clergy was out of control during the 60s 70s and 80s,What exacltly was the Police doing during this period?
I am very sure the Police received complaints and why were they not acted upon at the time instead of allowing the monsters to run amok?? The Government is just as responsible for covering these crimes up,just as responsible as the Priests and the Vatican.
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peace-out wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 11:18 AM ETTax the church already
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mrjoemac wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 11:14 AM ET
Gee is it a Protestant church???
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luxwolf wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 10:35 AM ET
sexual abuse is the very small reality compared to other abuses co-created from across the boundaries of authoritatives of morality and economics and include all religions (denominations) and citizens.
the social conditions of the minds to each and most all perpetrate abuses (non-sexual) by images relative to practices realities-problems.
and most all medias participate to the creation and maintenances of social conditions making any and much of abuse possible, practical, and inevitable.
secrecy, moral judgement and economics are deadly mental constructs for apparent or wanted esteems of imaged greater or lesser esteemed.
peace to the angry. peace to the perverse of power.
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Indigo Mary wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 10:32 AM ET
Money? Thats what you want? Money? I was sexually abused my entire childhood and didnt say a word. If I did it wouldn’t be ‘Cheque Please!”….It would be..Free Psychological Counselling….and a Jail Term for him. You people are starting to lose my belief it is for the right reasons you waited this long.
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twilight2 wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 10:24 AM ET
I would say to many secret checks have been written out for out and out child molestation and abuse…..
When are the cops going to throw these perverts in prison with the rest of the scum?
And they dare promote one to sainthood!
Everyone of these so called men of the cloth have known or know someone that has molested a child or children and they said nothing, they are equally as guilty in the eyes of the law as the one that perpetrated the acts, and that goes all the way to the pope himself!
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fairguy wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:58 AM ET
Oilcruzer wrote:Posted 2010/11/01 at 6:32 AM”
“This should not be open for comments, at risk of the victims.”
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of course it should, it fits nicely into CBC’s anti- Catholic policy, let the bigots and hate mongers post all sorts of garbage about the Catholic faith, but when other stories about sexual abuse done by people in other Chruches, professions, or sports, close them to comments…CBC you make me sick!
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Newfiealso wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:54 AM ET
The examples of sexual assault by priests is very disturbing. The failure of the Federal Government to really act is equally disturbing. Look what has happened to Native Canadian victims in spite of the show of doing something. That said, if you change the name to ‘Mosque’from Church, there would be a Federal Government uproar long ago. But since it is a Church, and almost always a Roman Catholic Church and its priests breaching their fiduciary duty, there is a show of outrage but nothing really substantive. Canada is after all a Catholic country (look at the numbers) which demands a brush under the carpet attitude. We should all, Protestant and Catholic, be ashamed of ourselves but we do nothing but posture and give weak bandaid solutions..
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Bumpy Road wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:53 AM ET
Is Bastarache that good that he can do two major commission enquiries at once?
This one in NB and the Judicial Appointments one in QC.
Will either get his full attention and a reasonable decision?
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Mad_Matt wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:52 AM ET
Abusers are abusers no matter who they are and should pay for their crimes like everyone else in this world. Money settlements pfff. I say prison for abusers
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Kotlet wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:43 AM ET
We give them tax breaks so they can afford this?
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ZeeBeeSee wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:32 AM ETA word to the wise:
In Belgium, where pastoral abuse and unquestioned secular support of the church was refined to a veritable art over centuries, the clerical abusers offered meetings and “confessionals” with the victims as a means to “relieve their burden”. The priests, bishops and cardinals were then able to claim they could not comment because of the “seal of confession”, protecting the victim… hmmmm.
According to canon law, A priest cannot break the seal to save his own life,.. etc …or to aid the course of justice. Notice how canon law purports to take precedence over the law of the land, on pain of excommunication of the violator.
In other words it’s a perfect shield against self-incrimination – unless the victim himself requests that the seal be broken by the priest. Even then the priest may refuse to divulge the confession, although he’d need to dream up a good reason, and the victim cannot be stopped from stating his or her facts to the world.
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GregM@NS wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:19 AM ET
. . . “there is a feeling among many of the individuals that they are tired of taking orders from the Catholic church. It’s a system, which has been dictated to them by the diocese, and for many of them they feel that the days of being dictated to by the diocese are over with,”
Couldn’t agree with the victims more – take them to court and sue them blue for what they have done to you. The RC hierarchy all the way to the Pope clearly and simply can not be trusted at all as they unbelievably still continue to try to wriggle, squirm away and still try and hide and deny their horrific disgusting past.
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RougeQ wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:10 AM ET
Abused victims protested in Rome yesterday and yet who noticed?
“Victims of clerical sex abuse end protest with symbolic Vatican march”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1101/1224282400126.html
There seems to continue a culture of not looking at the reality of the problem especially last week when too many Quebecers were seduced by the latest marketing ploy by the Vatican when the organization waved a magic wand and deemed a poor, illiterate, unskilled labourer into a subject of worship.
This makes me see humanity as hopeless.
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ZeeBeeSee wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:07 AM ET
Edmontonian wrote:Posted 2010/11/01 at 7:53 AM
“I don’t believe in hell, but sometimes I wish I did. There should be a special place there reserved for any person in a position of authority who abuses children.”
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Mark my words: if the church hasn’t used this excuse yet, they surely will: “since abusers will be judged by the almighty, there is no need to pounish them in this life”.
So don’t even let on that we WISHED there was a hell for these sick animals – they may take the suggestion and run with it.
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ZeeBeeSee wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:03 AM ET
Oilcruzer wrote:Posted 2010/11/01 at 6:32 AM”
“This should not be open for comments, at risk of the victims.”
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Spoken in the fine shell-game tradition of “hide the perp”.
Exactly the mentality that has seen this situation continue for centuries.
Sorry, Oilcruzer, times they are a-changin’.
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ZeeBeeSee wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 9:03 AM ET
Oilcruzer wrote:Posted 2010/11/01 at 6:32 AM”
“This should not be open for comments, at risk of the victims.”
____
Spoken in the fine shell-game tradition of “hide the perp”.
Exactly the mentality that has seen this situation continue for centuries.
Sorry, Oilcruzer, times they are a-changin’.
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bahram66 wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 8:47 AM ET
Why our tax dollars are supporting these institutions?
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PrimeNumbers wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 8:45 AM ET
It’s bad enough that abuse occurs, but we must also find and go after the higher-ups in the Church that facilitated the abuse and turned a blind eye to the abuse.
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redangus wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 8:24 AM ET
So the church is trying to pay the victims off to keep quiet – under the pretext of protecting them. It’s a little too late to protect these people – where was the church when they were being abused!!! Sue them for all you can get and get these perverts out of society.
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Edmontonian wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 7:53 AM ET
I don’t believe in hell, but sometimes I wish I did. There should be a special place there reserved for any person in a position of authority who abuses children.
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VerbTheAdjectiveNoun wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 7:29 AM ET
The church’s handling of this entire situation for hundreds of years has been appalling.
And Oilcruzer: This is a story that should most definitely be open for comments, so that any rcc higher ups that read this get an idea of how angry a lot of Canadians are for doing such a terrible job and attempting to ignore and coverup instead of address a huge problem.
I bet they’d wake up in the vatican in a hurry if our government grew a pair and ended the tax exemption status of religions.
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El Cuervo wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 7:18 AM ET
Transparency of the facts,without the names of the victims, would be a good start for an instittuion that purports to be an instructor of morals and ethics.It appears that the tradition of calling in a fixer only protects the perpertrators and the negligent hierarchy.
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Oilcruzer wrote:Posted 2010/11/01
at 6:32 AM ET
This should not be open for comments, at risk of the victims.
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