He slit his own throat

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Well, well, well….

What a day in court today!!!!!

Monsignor Robert Borne took the stand in his own defence today.

BIG big mistake – for him!

He cut his own throat.

It was unbelievable what came out of this Roman Catholic priest’s mouth on the stand.  Absolutely and totally unbelievable.

I mentioned early this morning that if the judge ruled that the testimony of the two complainants could be considered fact evidence than there was a possibility that Borne would take the stand.

The judge did indeed view the two cases as similar fact.

And Borne did indeed take the stand.

For now, let me just tell you a little of what came out of the mouth of this Roman Catholic priest:

(1)  He admitted “groping” a 16-year-old boy for about five minuted in bed at the rectory in Griffiths.  He denied performing oral sex on the lad, and also denied French kissing the boy first, but, according to Borne himself, he did indeed ‘grope’ the boy.

(2)  He admitted having a two-year sexual relationship ship of sorts with the above complainants brother.  Asked if he had a “romantic” relationship with the boy, he said he had “difficulty” with the word romantic.  He agreed however that there were aspects of a sexual relationship to the relationship.

(3) He admitted to having had a number of homosexual relationships with men, but denied that he is homosexual.

More on Borne’s disastrous but enlightening testimony is later.  Much more

A final note here, – the Crown did a masterful job on cross examination.  No tricks, just straight logic.

I don’t know what the verdict will be, but no matter what happens, as a Roman Catholic priest Borne has slit his own throat!

Both sides present final submissions tomorrow morning.

The judge will render her verdict on Friday morning.

I will be back later to fill in the pieces.  An amazing day.  I don’t think Monsignor Borne will sleep tight tonight….

Enough for now,



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43 Responses to He slit his own throat

  1. Lina says:

    A BIG thank you Sylvia for those updates on Monsignor Robert Borne’s trial.

    I do appreciate it.

    I am very proud for those courageous (alleged ?) Borne’s victims.


  2. Raymond Selbie says:

    The Judge will make the decision based on the Criminal Code and the caselaw surrounding the particular offences.
    As a Lawyer, I am somewhat reluctant to think that the Court is an arbiter of truth. The system is designed to determine whether the Crown has proven the offences beyond a reasonable doubt and then, if that is the case, punish appropriatly otherwise, let the accused go free.
    As a Catholic who continues to believe in the value and divine purpose of the Catholic Church, I am filled with sorrow for the victims of such admitted sinful and trust breaking actions that Borne has related to the Court.
    I cannot but believe that Borne has commenced the journey to truth and reconcillation by the admissions you relate. Let him now live by the tenants that he has used to make his living i.e repentance and acceptance of personal failings and if necessary, payment from his own pocket for the damage he has done. Many faithful believers are the victims of these type of breaches of trust and suffer along side the innocents that have been assaulted. For his small part in the admission of his sin, Borne is to be accepted as he hopefully commences a long treck to recovery of his soul and perhaps even partial restoration of the dignity of the priesthood that has been so soiled in recent years.
    I pray for Borne, the victims of his lust and the the faithful who remain hopeful for a better Church.
    Ray Selbie

  3. Suzanne says:

    As a retired educator and former principal of St James; Eganville; Fr Borne is/was known to me both on a personal and professional level. I made a commitment to myself to attend the trial for a myriad of reasons; first and formost as a visible support to the victims; secondly to hear the specifics and finally to view the court proceeding. Was quite surprised by the small attendance in the courtroom!!!
    The happenings today have been totally and realistically captured by Sylvia in her comments; his testimony was surely “titilating”; and there is more to come from Sylvia; whatever the outcome the diocese will be reeling with Borne’s admissions from the stand….

  4. TLWST says:

    I grew up in Pembroke and was raised Catholic. Ray, I appreciate your post, but I do not agree with you. The issue here is that these priests never come forward on their own. I am not so sure Borne was admitting his sins and is on the road to recovery. Borne hid out for months under the protection of the church before finally turning himself into the police. He continued to say mass after the allegations came forth, and maintained his innocence. This man is delusional about the pain he has caused, has he apologized? He admits to several relationships with men but denies being a homosexual? It seems to me, that Borne has much more self analysis to do! Borne is suggesting that these boys were over the age of consent, and that he is not at fault. Borne has not, to my knowledge, apologized or taken responsibility for all of his actions. What about the other victims (there are others) will Borne take responsibility for that and apologize to them so they can start healing?

  5. TLWST says:

    Has anyone read the article in the Observer today? Borne was very smart, grooming these children for 2 years, gaining trust, then as soon as they turned 16 making his move, by waiting until they are 16 he can say his abuse was consensual. Borne is not taking responsibility for anything he has done. Borne’s only goal here is self serving and to avoid jail.

  6. prima facie says:


    Mr. Selbie: You bring up several points which have brought me significant frustration for years. As I see it, your post attempts to draw a parallel of God’s Will and the divine purpose of the Catholic Church, with the Judge’s decision and the Practice of Law; not the “Rule of Law” but the “practice of Law”. Firstly; I have learned that, as you write, “the Court is NOT an arbiter of truth and that the system is designed to determine whether the Crown has proven the offences beyond a reasonable doubt.” In this VERY important statement, I find it extremely frustrating that civilians and specifically victims and their supporters, do not understand this. Unfortunately, many people believe that the courts determine the “truth” or otherwise, relating to an allegation. The fact is, if for one reason or another, the Crown does not present a formidable prosecution, all could be lost or won, depending on the accused or the plaintiff; wouldn’t you agree? So much power, influence and trust, given to the Crown, under false perceptions. Perhaps, in part, the cause is too much television or too much influence asserted by some lawyers or other persons in positions of authority, who help to construct these misperceptions that most civilians hold. But, I believe you said it all in the first paragraph. Of course, you have not written about the many, many cases that are settled out of court or before charges are laid and the circumstances surrounding them. Nor, do you mention if the accused in those “settlement” cases are encouraged or enlightened to “commence the journey to truth and reconciliation”, as observed by a Catholic who continues to believe in the value and divine purpose of the Catholic Church, that you write about in your post.
    But I am straying from Borne. Let me get back.
    Further to your post and as reference, you write, that as a Catholic who continues to believe in the value and divine purpose of the Catholic Church, Borne has commenced the journey to truth and reconciliation by the admissions and the “journey”. You ask us to “let him now live by the tenants…”. You write, “Borne is to be accepted….” So, Mr. Selbie, are you implying that for those who are Catholics and who continue to believe in the value and divine purpose of the Catholic Church, Borne must be forgiven? That’s what it seems like to me. Mr. Selbie, did Borne have an epiphany or spiritual awakening that brought him forward to admit these sins? Is it “blind faith” you suggest trust in? Mr. Selbie, as you are a lawyer, I ask you to consider yourself as the prosecuting lawyer. What would you assert are the circumstances that have brought Borne to these disclosures? Now let’s do the same exercise as if you are defending the accused. Mr. Selbie, can you see the shortcomings of the Justice System, as you write about? Do you see why some people are unwilling to trust? Are you implying that the court system is weak and only “good Catholics” must “let him live by the tenants…” and that only “good Catholics” must let Borne “be accepted…” Dare I suggest, if readers do not act as you suggest, they are not “good Catholics”. Mr. Selbie; are you a lawyer or are you a Catholic? Are you both-is that a conflict?

  7. Ray Selbie says:

    Dear TLWST
    Please note that I only said that Borne has commenced the journey. This is only my thought and certainly, commencing the journey is far from arriving at the destination of truth and healing for all concerned.

    The prime concern is for those physically and/or emotionally harmed by deviants and that cannot be compromised. However, I am concerned that all institutions have been burdened as of late by such perverts and there does not seem to be such an outscry to destroy these institutions. I fear that the desire to destroy the Catholic Church is a far greater motive than healing of the victims of individual abuse.

    I was in the Seminary with Borne and after four years of study, was moved to make public the actions and names of those within the institution that were acting in the same and similar form as has been reported that Borne admitted in Court. Borne was not one of the people that at that time appeared destined for the destruction of others and the priesthood. Rather than deal with the illness that was growing in the Seminary, the authorities chose to ask me to leave for a year. Suffice it to say that the act of punishing me for the failure of the authorities within the institution and perhaps even in hindesight, their involvement in deviant behaviour, ended my thoughts of becoming a priest.

    I tell you this becaue it took many years for me to overcome that injustice and watch many of the deviants being ordained It took me many years of personal struggle to sift out the garbage that I saw from the true meaning and mission of Christ’s Church. I am now back in the community of the Church and in so far as I am able, living the faith that I was priveleged to receive as a child.

    The good clergy and laity have been abused as much as Borne’s victims by these perverted members of the Church and I am saddened further when I see so many witch hunting and wanting to burn down the church and the innocents within in the name of Justice.

    My point is that we should punish the criminal and not the whole Church as this is self defeating when one considers the good works and love of the vast majority of Catholics both religious and laity.

    In the end, if the institutional Church and the victims and their advocates really wish to do justice, we should take a lesson from South Africa. Apartheid cause much more suffering than these perverted clergy and it was Bishop Desmond Tutu and others who realized that the burden of hate is much heavier than the yoke of Christ and thus we had the ‘Truth and Reconcilliation Commission’ formed. We need to do the same.
    Ray Selbie

    • TLWST says:

      Ray, thanks for sharing. In my opinion the church is destroying itself. The church still hasn’t been completely honest, they still lie to their own priests or force their silence, and still lie to the laity and in many cases, still allow paedophiles to abuse. As you know the church knew about Prince yet allowed him to travel to Thailand and were about to bestow accolades upon him from Rome, why? They also knew about Borne but did nothing for a long time; I realize he was eventually removed from his parish. My husband and I were raised in very catholic homes, and have had only good experiences in the church. However, we have had a son recently and we left the church. It has caused much grief in our extended family. I could write paragraphs and paragraphs of our reasons but you have heard it all before. Instead I want to ask you when the levels of evil and deception are so high in church how can we attain a truth and reconcilliation commission…when the representatives at the highest levels in the church will still not do the right thing?

  8. Ray Selbie says:

    Dear prima facie,
    One only has to look to St. Thomas More to answer your final question. He was both and suffered as did Christ for the truth.
    Ray Selbie

  9. prima facie says:

    Following up Mr. Selbie’s comments and the convictions, suffering of Sir Thomas More: “The King’s Good Servant But God’s First”. So, as I eluded to before, who has the genuine “rights” on judging Borne’s disposition in this case. Is it our Justice System’s responsibility? Is it following the principles of the “divine purpose of the Catholic Church” as referenced by Mr. Ray Selbie (lawyer) or is it up to an independent tribunal, etc., etc? Sir Thomas More among other things, supposedly uttered the above quotation. But, when we say we are “God’s Servant First”, does that mean, in part, some of the time or wholely, all of the time? Who do we depend on to interpret God’s Will, especially in cases such as Borne’s and especially if the courts are obviously fallible?

    Sylvia; is there anything about Borne’s testimony that you could clear up as you were there? What was his demeanour etc., etc.

  10. Sylvia says:

    I am watching the exchange with interest. Yes, prima facie, I am currently working on the testimony. I am close to finished. As always with me, it takes longer than I think.
    I think it will clear up some of the confusion around Borne’s testimony and whether or not he was doing a ‘mea culpa’ on the stand.

    I personally don’t think he was. Far from it. I in fact had the sense of a priest without a conscience who has lost all sense of right and wrong.

    I will wrap it up, get it posted and see what others think

  11. Ray Selbie says:

    One must never forget that there is a ‘we’ in the Church. Either we decide to sink the ship or try to heal the wounds. Each must make that decision for her or himself. As for my part, I have chosen to try and be part of the healing. Evil people have torn the fabric of the Bride of Christ into shreds. I leave their punishment to the Courts and He who indicated that those who cause scandal to children would be better thrown into the sea with a millstone around their neck. The law of man will punish those who have violated innocence, the law of God demands otherwise of me. If I were to be in charge of these deceivers, I would burn them at the stake-and that is why I am not in charge of these matters.

    This is all nonsense if there is no Christ-I know that-so in the end, it comes down to whether we believe or not and if we do, we must seek to find healing. Many know as well as I do how corrupt the heirarchy and the clergy can be. I suffered under their lash and have come out the other side with faith in Christ and His ability to overcome all obstacles. He is however frozen if we do not become his hands and feet. This sounds all very ideal but for me, it has been born from a youth with good and loving pastors,clergy and religious as well as the destructive experiences with evil priests and laity. I have seen and experienced the best and the worse of the Church and choose to insist that the best be the standard.

    In the end, it is up to me and you to insist upon truth and reconciliation. If we fail to insist upon it, then it is us that have failed as surely as the corrupt human beings within the Church systems that allowed a Prince and his kind to continue.

    I know that my position does not meet the tone and tenure of this website that I have been reading since Borne was first charged. I admire and support those who would expose evil but once again fear that evil will turn on those who are so consumed with fighting it only to forget that after the fight, there must be peace.
    Ray Selbie

    • TLWST says:

      Ray, my name is Tara. I like your answer, I just read it to my husband. You say “In the end, it is up to me and you to insist upon truth and reconciliation. If we fail to insist upon it, then it is us that have failed as surely as the corrupt human beings within the Church systems that allowed a Prince and his kind to continue.” How do we do this? I feel like this website is trying to do that, that speaking out and trying to support victims is doing that, but you say it is also creating a witch hunt mentality (which I can see and understand). How should we pursue peace? We need this to stop before we can achieve peace. I don’t know what to do anymore, which is why I left.

      • Ray Selbie says:

        I believe that we must pound upon the Bishop’s door in all Diocese and insist that a group composed of victims, laity, clergy and someone with at least access to the South African model be formed immediatly.
        I know that the Church will resist this on the advice from the lawyers given ongoing criminal and civil matters however, we are the Church and unless we all insist in such a revolutionary turnaround, it will not happen. Were I a priest in this Church, I would feel it my mandate to rally my parish in this direction as well as the bishop and fellow clergy. Perhaps we should ask our priests to again become pastors and shepherds in the healing process and not simply be content to presume they are of the ill will that the public press has engendered.


  12. Sylvia says:

    Before I say any more, do you believe Ray Selby that priests such as Borne should be/must be laicized/”defrocked”?

    • Ray Selbie says:

      If a breach of trust has been established (whether in a canonical or criminal court), then I believe that the person who has created that evil must be removed from the position of representing the Church. If this is to defrock (ancient term) or to laicize, then that is what must happen. I am however aware that not all charges levelled against a person are true and so, pending the outcome of the trial, they should be kept from any position seen as representative of the Church.
      This will satisfy the possible ongoing damage to the Church but as we know, deviants do not stop simply because they are punished. We will then simply have a pervert on the prowl outside of the Church door.-Catch 22 perhaps as keeping him or her in the Church may allow some control but to throw them out is only to limit their access to victims within the Church.
      In the end, we do live in a country that cherishes the right to be presumed innocent and until guilt is established, the Church, in my opinion, should remove that person from all contact with the public

      • Sylvia says:

        I use defrock because it is a word understood by all. I understand that even the use of the word laicize is now frowned upon by those who consider it an insult to the laity! I can’t keep up 🙁

        I am relieved to know that you agree that convicted and known predators should be defrocked. Regardless of the outcome tomorrow I would think that there is sufficient evidence from Borne’s own mouth that he is unfit to be a priest. Hopefully his fellow canon lawyers will see it that way, if and when he dealt with by a tribunal.

        I don’t see laicization as a form of punishment. I see it as ensuring the sanctity of the priesthood. The priest himself may well see it as punishment but for me it has nothing to do with pubishement and everything to do with restoring sanctity.

        Your catch 22 argument is new ‘old chestnut.’ I believe it’s a red herring. The one thing laicization ensures is that that priest can never again ‘use his collar’ to win the trust of the naive to betray all. Further to that, it’s one less rotten apple in the barrel. Let him spend the rest of his days, as I have said repeatedly, earning his own salvation rather than leading others astray.

        Why do you say “her”? Are we not talking here of clerical sexual predators?

        No matter, limiting a clerical sexual predators access to victims within the Church is, I think, a noble goal. And, I must say, Church authorities have failed miserably in the past in keeping tabs on known predators. To the contrary, they recycled them. It’s still happening. Why then would you or anyone think for a moment those same compassionate authorities are suddenly capable of monitoring them?

        If you are really concerned about the fate and well being of these predators and/or their ability to run loose in society then I suggest lobby for a large home outside the city or town which can house defrocked/laicized priests. Ensure that they have three square meals a day. Assign a priest to oversee their daily comings and goings and ensure that they are never within an inch of a child or vulnerable adult. If we can’t trust society to keep tabs on these lacized priests and therefore argue that they should not be laicized, then, rather than let the red herring rule the day, am willing to go with this option. These men should not be priests. They are not fit to be priests. Their very presence in the priesthood is an insult to Christ, the Church, their fellow priests and the laity.

        Do you have any idea what it does to a victim to know that the Church actually deems his/her molester worthy of being a priest? or what it does to the families and friends of victims?

        Do you have any idea Ray how many of these lost souls will not darken the door of a Church because they truly have no guarantee that the priest in sanctuary is not a convicted or known predator? They are the lost sheep. What of them?

        You will not find the peace you seek Ray until Church officials start to treat child sex abuse as the horror that it is, and treat those who perpetrate the horror accordingly, as unfit to be priests. That is not damning them to Hell. It allows them every opportunity to save their own souls and ample opportunity to spend their lives praying for the souls they so cruelly and selfishly raped. The cancer which is gnawing away at the Church must be rooted out.

        I can forgive. Others can forgive. Laicizing has nothing to do with forgiving, and everything to do with restoring the sanctity of the priesthood.

        No red herrings. No more. No excuses. No false compassion. Peace will come when those in authority do the right thing.

  13. Inhisservice says:

    Sylvia – any insight as to why the crown did not call to testify those who lived with Borne? You mention a series of names. Surely they would have knowledge?

    • Sylvia says:

      I have no idea Inhisservice. It was a very pared down sort of trial. There were no family members called to testify. Nor, as you point out, were any of the priests who lived in bishops palace at the time called. It’s highly possible I suppose that the latter were contacted and claimed to have heard and/or seen nothing? I really don’t know.

      The only other witness called was the friend of C2 who went on that first trip to Griffith with Borne and C2. He was contacted at the 11th hour by defence and asked to show the following morning to testify.

      I made no mention of this because in truth he fizzled as a witness. He remembered the trip, but nothing else. He was on and off the stand in a flash. I don’t know what Carew hoped to gain by putting him on the stand, but there was nothing to his testimony. He remembered going to Griffith with Borne and C2. That was it!

  14. prima facie says:

    Sylvia; you have asked a fair question. I now suggest that unfortunately, we may have heard the last from Mr. Ray Selbie or we will get a reply replete with ambiguity; he has no choice. I believe Mr. Selbie is a lawyer with a painful inner conflict between his profession and “The Word of God”. As is often the situation, if a person finds themselves cornered with “the facts”, inner conflict or when dissenting voices are speaking out, the cry of “witch hunt” is heard. Actually, I believe it is people like Mr. Selbie, who can help to make the changes needed, but for various reasons CAN’T! Additionally, it appears to me that, for some reason, Mr. Selbie is backtracking slightly. In his opening post last evening, he wrote about the fallible justice system. In his most recent post, he seems to imply that the justice system will manage the criminals and God will manage the truth after, life on earth. Okay, so why even bother with anything at all?
    This is also the problem with blogs. Some people forget what they have written previously, others forget what they have read previously and new visitors only read the most recent posts, getting half the story. Mr. Selbie has already stated what he believes we should do…re-read his opening post.

    • Ray Selbie says:

      prima facie
      would that I had the insight that you purport to have of me and my thoughts.
      I suppose we shoud return to the dark ages and dunk sinners in boiling oil-if they survive then they are guilty- if they die, they are innocent.
      All the best in the battle you seek to wage.

  15. Inhisservice says:

    Does anyone known the maximum penalties for conviction? Is the law different now as opposed to then concerning age of consent / sexual impropriety with a minor?

  16. prima facie says:

    Mr. Selbie: I find your last 2 posts to be very positive and definitely a means of going forward. In previous social interventions, I found there were different people/groups from various perspectives, trying to control and direct the flow. But, I certainly like the collaborative approach.

  17. prima facie says:

    Mr. Selbie: To be candid; “The battle I have waged” is a losing battle. One I will definitely never win in this lifetime and one I have been fighting since I was twenty years old. That is when I first began interacting with lawyers frequently. My fight is against self-serving, unscrupulous lawyers and a similar justice system, that lies and goes to any lengths to protect the elitists they serve and the structures they have designed……for “the greater good” they define and re-define. Was Sir Thomas More conflicted? Shame on the lawyers-this has been going on for decades!

  18. Inhisservice says:

    Sylvia, you indicated that Borne’s family was present in the courtroom. How would characterize their facial expressions during or after his testimony. Did you get a read on them?

    • Sylvia says:

      I was sitting in front of his mother and sister so couldn’t see their response and in all honest didn’t have the heart to turn around to see. I thought of them several times when he was on the stand, particularly his mother. I can not imagine how she must have felt hearing what I and others heard. No matter how stoic she may have seemed she must have felt like a piece of her was being ripped right out of her body.

      I feel for his mother. I feel for his sister. It can’t be an easy journey for them either.

  19. primafacie says:

    “Inhisservice”, thanks for your input. Mr. Selbie, I have been candid about some of the reasons I have anger. For all you readers, anger is actually very beneficial. It is important to monitor how I react to anger that counts and it is important to know what makes me angry. ANGER is NOT a bad thing. Mr. Selbie, I only ask you to be candid too. Are you now willing to spearhead a collaborated intervention similar to your previous suggestion? May I ask why you have never done so? You have knowledge of the courts, the justice system, the Catholic Church, etc. Why have others with your experience, knowledge, education, not come forward already….why do Priests who know the facts elect to hide in the shadows OR have there been many similar projects…that have really accomplished little? Why have they accomplished little?

    • Inhisservice says:

      A lot of hasty generalizations and conclusions here. You don’t know what others do, even if not trumpeted before them!

    • Ray Selbie says:

      prima facie
      I mentioned earlier that I exposed several seminarians by name and deed when I was in the Seminary with Borne. One of these was Thomas O’Dell who went on to commit horrific sadistic acts on boys in Sault St. Marie. He was and I presume still is in jail and has been removed from priestly duties (laisised or defrocked as Sylvia indicated). When I heard of his final conviction, I felt fully justified for the positions I took so many years ago and for which I had been asked to leave the Seminary. At the same time, my old anger rose to a level that it had been 40 plus years ago and I wrote a scathing letter to the Rector who had led the band to remove me from the Seminary (Bishop O’Mara). My anger and self justification was poetic but I decided to pray over the value of the letter before sending it. In the end, I accepted the fact that it would only confuse and upset a now elderly man and as he was so arrogant in the 1970’s with little prospect of any change, my letter; although cathartic, was valueless. I quickly realized that my anger was self destructive as well as useless in the greater scheme of things and I had to let it go. The old adage about the man who goes out in anger to bury his enemy had better carry two shovels-one for the enemy and one for himself- rang true to me.

      I feel that anger is of value if it brings about positive action and is short lived however, it is self destructive unless same occurs. I am not criticizing you for anger but merely indicating that I know how self absorbing and self destructive it can become-it almost destroyed me as a young man.

      I know of no other attempts to follow the path of the truth and reconciliation commission in South Africa. In fact, the idea slowly came to me as I have read the Borne saga on this website since 2009 and felt that healing for all concerned is absolutly necessary and in my opinion, God directed. Satan cannot stand against the truth as long as it is based on love of God and our fellow men and women.

      If Borne is set free of the charges he faces because the boys were over 16, then he remains a parasite to the Church and society as a whole because of what he apparently has admitted. He must face his sins even if the Courts find he escapes the fine letter of the law. I was able to persume him innocent until the report of his self admissions and now, all I can feel is pity for him and sorrow for the boys he abused. I cannot but pray for them all (including Borne) even if it is only to give my anger at his actions some positive outlet.

      In so far as your feelings towards self serving etc. lawyers and a similar justice system, I can appreciate your concern. The system was designed to assure that the innocent accused has the full protection of the law and not to necessarily convict the guilty. That is why I said it does not seek the truth- it is up to the Crown and the Defence to do their very best and then the impartial observer (the Judge) has to decide given the evidence vis a vis the wording of the Criminal Code. It is an imperfect system and some but not all escape true justice. I was the main Defence lawyer in this area for 15 years and quite frankly, like St. Thomas More, had to bow out from that area of law because I could no longer accept the fact that I knew in my heart that some of my clients were guilty and yet my job was to put forth the best defence possible. In law, as the lawyer is also an officer of the court, he or she cannot lie of mislead the Court. I am afraid that some of the new breed of lawyers missed the course on legal ethics and thus feel that their vocation is to win rather than serve justice and society. Believe me, there are still many good and honest lawyers around but, like the good priests, their fidelity is often missed by public perception.

      In so for as the need for truth and reconciliation movement goes, it is up to all of us to demand it. If the authorities, faithful, victims and interested parties refuse to unite, then it will not work. I am however sure that there was much more opposition to the idea when put forth in South Africa. However, there was agreement in spite of the fact that bloodshed was the preferred method of Justice by both white and black members of their society. There is reason to have faith in the goodness of mankind as well and the power of God to move souls. I am also confident that many Bishops, if they are at least awake, are monitoring this and similar websites as their asses as well as their souls depend on how we choose to react to the breaches of trust and abuse over the last 40-50 years.

      I like the scripture that relates the man possessed and how the devil was driven out. Satan then comes by later and looks into the man-seeing that the room is now clean and comfortable, and all dolled up; he decides to return with seven of his cohorts and repossess the man-this time to his damnation. “and the last state of the man was worse than the first” Matthew 12:43-45. Thus, we must always be vigilant as the nice comfortable room that was once possessed by the evil one can become a much more filthy cesspool if not constantly guarded.

      I wander too much and thus must return to what I do to feed my family and serve my clients. The current revelations of sin in the Church would not have come forth without the impetus of you and all people who refuse to accept it any more. Thank you.

      Ray Selbie

      • Inhisservice says:

        Excellent reflections Ray! You are a good man! God help those who were in positions of authority and punished you instead of cleaning house. God is great and His live will prevail even in the midst if this fog and darkness. Bless your heart!

  20. Larry Green says:

    Ray Selbe, you say “As a Lawyer, I am somewhat reluctant to think that the Court is an arbiter of truth.” Would it be more fair to say that the court is an arbiter of truth but the defending or prosecuting lawyers are not? Just a curious question.

    The skill with which you advance the arguments above is truly beautiful and on that level very compelling.. Some of the claims on the other hand – while it is plain to see that it comes from a very spiritual minded man – are somewhat perhaps founded on prejudiced principles. I know that none of us are “prejudice free” in our view of the world but I also believe that any pursuit of the truth is a work in vain if one is not prepared to give up his riches , including “rich in the head.” In recognizing the prejudice in ourselves we begin to recognize it in others and this surely represents the intersection or the cross , that a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jew, or anyone who chooses to search for that “final cause “ of ones own existence , must bear.
    There is indeed a ’we’ in the church but pretending that there isn’t also a ’they’ leads us into futile fallacious argument such as the false dilemma “ We either decide to sink the ship or we try to heal the wounds.” There are as many courses of action as there are individuals. ‘We’ can be a great source of good but if a powerful ‘we’ closes in on itself it can become a force which pushes down the value of individuals within as well as the value of other different groups of ‘we’.
    The church can be a beautiful place and way to celebrate with joy our love for God and God’s love for us but for some who are so deeply wounded it can be a place of unbearable pain. It’s so important – as you would agree- for those to know that Jesus loves them and will never abandon them because they don’t go to church ( nor for any other reason). The church is universally the Bride of Christ because of it’s members, but each one of us in an even more substantial way as individual Brides of Christ prepare for the great ’wedding feast.’ Jesus didn’t say if you change or become a member of the Jewish faith I will love you, He said I love you as you are. That’s what we all need to know , it is indeed good news and not just for Catholics or any other particular group or condition.
    I agree that we should leave their punishment (the evil people) to the courts but “they” must first be exposed not only for the purpose of being brought to justice but also to prevent farther atrocities and that is no small intent and purpose of this web site along with the intent to provide a place where those who have been wounded by the church are able to vent , to express frustration , anger, explicitly reject illusion, shout for the truth … in a way that up until the very recent past was reserved for journalists or those privileged to shout ( to often lies , false assumptions and hypocrisy) from the pulpit.
    I don’t agree that you’re position is in opposition at all to the milieu of this site as the site is fundamentally intended to be. I do agree absolutely and wholeheartedly that forgiveness is essential to any healing. We must always keep in mind though that forgiveness can be a slow , delicate and painful process and it’s pace needs to be dictated by the one who needs to forgive. It is not the ‘once and for all’ act that we would like it to be and there is no doubt in my mind that anything is possible with the gentle urgings of Jesus and He obviously transcends the church.
    For this final assertion of your’s “fear that evil will turn on those who are so consumed with fighting it only to forget that after the fight, there must be peace” thank you Ray, we will all be wise to heed this warning.

  21. primafacie says:

    “Inhisservice”….decades of personal experience, interactions and research…..not hasty generalizations and conclusions.

    I’m glad Sylvia was in court yesterday and she will be there again tomorrow. I’m glad Sylvia cleared up her original statement above regarding Borne’s disclosures. Thank-you Sylvia.

    • Inhisservice says:

      People have stepped forward, even if not known to you. I know a few priests who themselves have fought hard and brought forward many things superiors may not have wanted to hear. It is now something of a different climate, albeit imperfect.

  22. prima facie says:

    “albeit imperfect”. I am not asking for perfection. If people in positions of authority, special knowledge, power, influence, priviledge or otherwise have information about great changes for the better, then the world must be told. For those priests and other who are witholding public support to victims or witholding “special information” then shame on them. “They” are the co-conspirators who are doing nothing to change things, not the laymen. (refernce to Lawyer Ray Selbie’s previous blogs). The Ray Selbie’s of the world must lead the uninformed, the ill, the hurt,…the less fortunate. God has given them a great gift, “their profession”, knowledge and wisdom. How are “they” using it? Oh, I’ve heard for years, i.e.) “it’s in the right hands”, “people in higher positions will manage it now”, “there is a lot going on you don’t know about to change things for the good”, “there will be a research study committee formed”, “a public inquiry”…..yet it continues and when I research what has really been done for the better, the answer is “very little” other than making it look like a “cover up”.
    Leader’s must lead-not cover-up for the priviledged.

  23. inhisservice says:

    I can well understand why folks don’t participate in these forums. Your reflections are laced with anger, generalizations, conclusions and are fuelled by emotion, almost on the level of the hysterical. Your vision is blinded by this. Have a nice life.

  24. prima facie says:

    People can read and learn that anger is present and exists. Don’t be afraid “Inhisservice”. What freightens you about anger? Were victims afraid when they were being victimized? But you are participating in this forum “Inhisservice”. Who is doing the labelling here? Not all people believe as you do…….not all people react as you do. It isn’t easy to be challenged is it? In fact, if people don’t behave as you deem to be appropriate, or if you are challenged, perhaps we should be cast aside, labelled as outsiders, ostracized and blamed as the cause for lack of progress.

    • TLWST says:

      Prima Facie I don’t really see how this is constructive, it comes across a senseless ranting and raving.

      • Inhisservice says:

        I think some people forget that as human persons we have emotions, they don’t HAVE us. Anger, rage, disappointment, sadness, etc. are all a part of our human experience. As Ray has eloquently reminded us, and what I believe personally, is that there comes a point when we need to make a decision, a choice (yes prima we have the capacity to do so), to turn the corner. With Christ’s help, hearts can be healed, softened and renewed. We need not marinate in the other stuff forever!

  25. Bernie Buechman says:

    I am Impressed What Is The City Of Pembroke Going to be known as the City Of Murals Or Sex Offenders,What Kind of murals could we have painted for Our Beloved Catholic Untouchablesm Shame on us As For to many years looked to the church and its teachers to tell us how to live a better marreid life and to have better morals according to the Commandments.I was a non Believer and turned catholic and It Is Sickening to say the least to see what is going on.I have said right from the start that there are many gay priests becoming priests and praying on the innocent.It is a free for all once they are into the church.I spent many years growing up justl less than a half mile from where robert borne grew up His brother was dating a girl right next door to my house.I did not ever think to much about robert borne but at one time his father moved us home from parry sound to pembroke.I would like to add this if I could It Is not just the Problem of the church covering up or not disclosing
    information on problem priests but it also did the same for its old and first catholic cemeterys such as Pembrokes which was established 1847 and was to have over 900
    burials and sold by the bishop smith,father breen,father owens in 1956 for $1 to the Grey Sisters just like there was never a old catholic cemetery Sins Om Top Of Sins.

    Thank God For The Truth
    And This Site
    Let Us Believe In The Creator And Ourself
    Bernie Buechman Pembroke,Ontario

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