Quite a performance

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Hearings resume at 0930 hours (9:30 am) this morning, Friday 23 January 2009.  Initially Shelley Hallett will take the stand to finish cross examination by Bill Carroll (OPPA) and wrap up.  That is expected to take an hour.

Lidia Narozniak is scheduled to take the stand at 10:30 am to continue her testimony which was started last evening.

All a bit of a disgustingly confusing mess. 

Bill Carroll lost it completely when he was cross examining Hallett.  Justice Glaude finally intervened and brought that portion of the hearings to an end for the day.  Instead of finishing yesterday and heading for home Hallet has to return this morning for one more hour.

Part of the problem lay with commission having Narozniak on the wings to take the stand at 6 pm.  The initial plan had been to have Hallett ‘finished’ by 4:30 pm which would give time for a decent supper break before digging in again.

But, 5 pm came and went. Carroll was going strong, and no end in sight.  He was gone.  Puffing and panting and shrieking.  He was bound and determined he was going to get Hallett to agree with whatever it was he had in mind she meant when she said  “It’s all news to me” at a meeting with defence back at Leduc“trial”  #1.  That meeting was on 07 February 2001, right after C-16’s mother testified that Perry Dunlop had called her to find out how she was doing right around the time Constable Joe Dupuis stopped by her home and she had mentioned to Dupuis that Perry had just called.

We know what happened after that.  Dupuis hadn’t disclosed his notes.  A Perry contact.  Leduc’s ticket to freedom
AI will try to explain as best I can.

Hallett has said time and again that she was saying it was news to her that Detective Inspectors Tim Smith and Pat Hall met with Perry 23 July 1998 after they heard from Constable Dupuis that Perry had called C-16’s mother.  She acknowledged she had had a copy of Perry’s Will State and that there is a reference therein to the 23 July meeting, but she has consistently said both at the “trial” and at the inquiry that she overlooked that entry.  She has also said she was not told about the meeting by either Smith or Hall.  Nor was she told by Dupuis or anyone else of the Perry contact with C-16’s mother.  Nor was she ever given Dupuis’ notes on the matter. 

Hallett testified that she had gone through the Will State and other boxes of  documents in relation to Father Charles MacDonald’s  “trial.”  She wasn’t thinking of Leduc.   

She missed it.  And she admitted she missed at the Leduc “trial.”

Hallett testified at the inquiry that she was shocked at the 07 February 2001 meet to hear of  the Smith-Hall meeting with Perry Dunlop regarding the C-16 mother call because that’s the first she had heard of such a meeting, hence her comment: “ It’s all news to me.”

Carroll wasn’t buying it.  He had other ideas as to why Hallett said “It’s all news to me.”  She was lying.  He didn’t put it in so many words, but that’s the bottom line.

Carroll tried this approach.  No luck.  That approach.  No luck.  Time and again he repackaged the same words.  No luck.  With each repackaging Carroll grew progressively more agitated.  He puffed, and he panted, and he screeched.  Yes.  He really did screech. 

It was quite a performance.

Five o’clock came.  Carroll was still going. 

Glaude asked how much longer.  Carroll thought 45 minutes.  Glaude called it quits. 

THE COMMISSIONER: No, no. What we’re going to do, we’re going to adjourn.

 MR. CARROLL: Right.

THE COMMISSIONER: Because we’re tired; I’m tired. And we’re going to finish this tomorrow at 9:30. All right?

We’re going to take the break and we’re going to start the next witness at 6:15 p.m.

MR. CARROLL: Thank you.

THE COMMISSIONER: I think that’s the best way to do it in the circumstances. All right. Thank you very much. We’ll see you at 6:15 p.m.

That’s the kind of day it was.  We are indeed tired!

I didn’t metion it, but, Diane Lahaie (OPP) went for Shelley’s  jugular too.   I think at the rate they’re going the next thing we’ll hear is that Perry was holding a gun to Hallett’s head and forced her to say “It’s all news to me.”   That would make no sense at all, but, all the better because it doesn’t have to make sense does it?  and if doesn’t make sense that it would fdovetail quite nicely with all the other non-sense.

It wasn’t pretty in there.  The OPP and OPPA are not covering themselves in glory.  Not by a long shot.  It certainly does little to restore one’s rapidly faltering faith in the administration of “justice.”

With one exception, Hallett held up well.  She had apparently testified earlier that Pat Hall getting Perry to sign off that he had disclosed everything was a “cover-your-ass” move.  I missed that and don’t have time to check, but Carroll raised the matter and Hallett agreed she had said it.  When given a push Hallett recanted.


I posted the Jeannine Seguin ODE.  Note Father Gary Ostler’s name in there.  We know that Robert Sabourin was  a great friend of Bishop Proulx, and he was friends with a good number of clergy. Now this.

Did anyone think or bother to check a little further on Sabourin’s clerical connections?


I have commitments today.  A medical matter in the family.  I will hopefully be able to catch a good bit of the hearings but just not sure. I’m crossing my fingers.  I really would love to catch the Bill Carroll sequel 🙂


The transcripts are posted.  A must read.  What we are hearing from Lidia Narozniak re her involvement in the Leduc “trial” # 2 is disturbing to the extreme.  Going through the boxes of Perry’s materials with Leduc’s lawyer Marie Henienno less.  And back and forth with CPS S/Sgt. Gary Derochie.  And then the whole business of putting Perry on the stand.  Small wonder everyone wondered if Narozniak was working with Leduc’s defence team!  She was.

Perry didn’t have a hope.  Not a single hope.

Heartbreaking really. 

Enough for now,



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2 Responses to Quite a performance

  1. Sylvia says:

    Shelley Hsllett’s testimony wrapped up at 10:35 am. A five minute break and Lidia Narozniak will resume her testimony.

    Bill Carroll (OPPA) picked up with Hallett where they left off yesterday. More sparring. No shrieks this morning from Carroll, but he was getting pretty excited in there.

  2. Sylvia says:

    An outright disgrace this whole sham of ” trial” #2. I had forgotten some of the finer points of that travesty. They are coming back. The spin and misrepresentations in Henien and Narozniak’s JOINT efforts to get Leduc off the hook by scapegoating Perry.

    Narozniak is now saying there was all sorts of contact with C-16’s family. She should check the transcripts and read them accurately – minus her apparent bias and spin. She did not clarify an answer given by Carson because she was so keen to take it out of context. I remember the moment well!

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