Any connections?

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Lunch break at the Weave Shed.  Cross examination droned along throughout the morning.  I expect it will be more of the same this aft.  Damage control by all parties.  Perry this and Perry that.  A spin here.  An extrapolation there. A few sophism the other place. 

It all gets tiring.  Impossible to get to the truth when at least 10 parties have no more on their mind than protecting their clients at all costs, and if that means lynching Perry, so be it. By whatever means.  It worked at the “trial” of Jacques Leduc.  It worked at the “trial” of  Father Charles MacDonald.  It will work for those who want it to work in the Weave Shed.

As I have said so often in the past, it is far from a level playing field in there.  And so it goes on, and on, and on.

Nasty dirty stuff. 

A few comments I didn’t get up earlier:

(1)  Won’t give an inch

Seems Detective Inspector Pat hall might turn into a pumpkin if he stays a minute past 4:30 pm. 

Bad weather conditions meant that yesterday was a late start – 1030 am.

As the afternoon wore on the commissioner posed the question to Hall: “Are you prepared to sit till 5:00 or so, sir,today?”

Negative.  Pat Hall will not give an inch.

Perhaps wise?  Perhaps every witness should have done likewise?

Would anyone else have gotten away with it?

(2) Any connections between Peter and David Griffiths?

Who is the retired judge, Justice W. David Griffiths, who helped the Crown (McConnery) review briefs on the conspiracy allegations and several sex abuse allegations against prominent Cornwall men?  Any relation to Justice Peter Griffiths?  The former regional Crown who was involved in Cornwall almost if not from the get go?

I looked up a Canadian Who’s Who and W. David does not appear to be Peter’s father. Are they Uncle and nephew?   Or brothers? Or cousins?  Or no relation?  Anyone have background?

Here’s how that little piece of information slipped into the record yesterday.  Note that as soon as reference is made to a retired judge up pops Darrell Kloeze (AG) claiming solicitor-client privilege on the name, and in a twinkle of an eye Callaghan (CPS) spits out the name of Justice David Griffiths of the Court of Appeal:

MR. CALLAGHAN: All right. That’s enough.

So was it your understanding that Mr. McConnery, the Crown attorney, and Mr. Phillips, the Crown attorney, were consulting with the judge regarding your material you provided them?

 MR. HALL: That’s correct.

MR. CALLAGHAN: All right.

So when we get to the opinion, by the time you get Mr. McConnery’s opinion on August 15th of 2001, which is Exhibit 1140, it’s your understanding that your material has been extensively reviewed not only by yourself, not only by your team but also by Mr. McConnery, Mr. Phillips, and I believe this is a retired judge; correct?

 MR. HALL: Yes.

MR. CALLAGHAN: All right.

And that was your understanding?

MR. HALL: Yes, Mr. McConnery spoke to us and the investigators personally about it.

MR. CALLAGHAN: Did you know the name of that judge?

MR. HALL: I was never given a name.


MR. KLOEZE: Excuse me, Mr. Commissioner.

 Mr. Callaghan is getting into an area now on a document or an area which the Attorney General claims solicitor-client privilege. There is — I understand there had been a review of Mr. McConnery’s opinion. We are aware of that and we’ve claimed privilege over that review by the person who reviewed the brief.


MR. CALLAGHAN: Well, just so we’re clear, there are disclosed documents that refer to the retainer of Mr. Justice David Griffiths of the Court of Appeal. I just want to be clear that that’s who we’re talking about because that’s who I believe reviewed this. If that’s who we’re talking about claiming privilege, I guess we’ll deal with it when Mr. McConnery comes up, but I think we should have clarification if that is the retired judge, there would be no privilege to his name, and I believe it’s retired Judge David Griffiths of the Court of Appeal for Ontario.

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr. Kloeze, do you confirm that?

MR. KLOEZE: I can confirm that, yes.

MR. CALLAGHAN: So I will leave that for now, Mr. Commissioner. We’ll deal with that with another witness.

Because as I understand it, Mr. Hall, you don’t really have any idea about that. You just know, in your mind, that when you got Mr. McConnery’s opinion, he had actually been speaking to a retired judge; correct?

MR. HALL: Yes.

MR. CALLAGHAN: All right.

MR. HALL: He told me that.

Why the AG’s desire for solicitor client privilege here?  Why did they want that kept hush hush?

(3)  Run around

Note the Price documents.  Look at the run-around these poor souls endured over Shelley Price’s allegations of childhood ritual sex abuse:

(i) Project Truth wouldn’t touch Shelley Price’s allegations – they deaked out with the claim Project Truth dealt with boys and men only.

(ii) The Price file was turned over to Cornwall Police Service.

(iii)Shelly wanted nothing to do with CPS. There was no other option available to her.

(iv) The Prices asked that CPS Constable Perry Dunlop be assigned to the investigation. Request denied. 

(v) David Price wrote to the Ontario Solicitor GeneralRobert Runciman. 

(vi) Runciman couldn’t get involved!  A deputy advised the Prices to continue discussions with CPS Chief Repa, and suggested they may want to file a complaint with OCCPS in Toronto!

And John Callaghan had the audacity to say that Shelley Price “wouldn’t even come forward to make the allegation in a more formal way”?

Do you suppose John Callaghan knows why Shelley Price didn’t want to deal with CPS? I would guess he does.  In fact, I would be shocked if he doesn’t. But, he slips that demeaning comment in to skewer the facts, and it stands?

Amazing and disgusting what these lawyers get away with.

Anyway, I am going to post the entire exchange of testimony on this matter on the Shelley Price page. 

(4)  The “ sanctity of prosecutorial independence.”

Note too what’s happening out in British Columbia re compelling Crown’s attorney to testify at inquiries and in court. It’s all tied into what they call “the sanctity of prosecutorial independence.”

I bet the AGs office is waiting on the ruling of this appeal with baited breath.  If things go their way why, maybe there won’t be soul from the Ontario AG’s office to hit the stand?!

One way or the other I have a hunch there will be a bit of a battle mounted to keep one Ontario Crown after the other off the stand.  The “sanctity of prosecutorial independence” you know!.

We shall see 🙂

I have another article to post on this.  Will get it up later

(5)  Ooops!

Since at least 11 November 2008 the Cornwall Public Inquiry transcripts have listed Michael Neville as legal counsel for a “Father Charles MacDougald.”

A reader with a sharp eye brought this to my attention.  I checked each transcript back to 11 November 2008 and, yes, indeed, day after day there is Michael Neville representing a “Father Charles MacDougald.”

A few corrections due 🙂


They’re back.  David Sheriff Scott (Diocese and Bishop Larocque) is starting his cross-examination.

Enough for now,



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17 Responses to Any connections?

  1. RealityChecker says:

    Sylvia….have you seen this yet???

    Seems the Catholic Church doesn’t have any money to finish paying the victims of Mount Cashel!!!

    Yep….I certainly believe that (NOT!)

    Something else I want to bring to your attention too. Give me a few moments.

  2. RealityChecker says:

    I know people are waiting for the Frank Paul SCC ruling about “the sanctity of prosecutorial independence.” I understand it’s expected to come down in January.

    However, this RECENT SCC ruling is also significant!!!

    It has to do with victims of historical sexual abuse in civil cases. In other words, as we all know – regardless of the standard of proof being lower in civil cases the SCC is saying in this ruling (my interpretation) even though there may be inconsistencies in the witness testimony (mainly ddue to the time that has passed) victims of historical sexual abuse should be BELIEVED!!!

    The SCC has ruled on this related to civil trials!!!

  3. Sylvia says:

    No, I didn’t see it. Thanks for that.

    No surprise in truth. A few “good” canon lawyers have been on the buzz on this for years – canonical problem solving for bishops whose dioceses are or may be in a financial pickle over the activities of clerical predators. They ponder and find clever ways to ‘legally’ redistribute the wealth – well out of reach.

  4. Sylvia says:

    Link for SCC ruling is dead. Can you check it and try posting again RealityChecker?

  5. RealityChecker says:

    Okay try…..

    Citation:F.H. v. McDougall, 2008 SCC 53
    Date:October 2, 2008
    Docket: 32085

  6. Sylvia says:

    It works :). Thanks.

  7. David Price says:

    I would like to throw this out to your audience. In the summer of 1975 I was drugged and sexually assaulted on a boat that was moored at the Upper Canada Marina at Upper Canada Village. I am sure the man involved was a Long Sault OPP Officer. The Woman was Sheila Ward (ne:Jackson?)a Long Sault OPP dispatcher. Both of these people were active in the Cornwall Clan.
    Somebody might remember an OPP who owned or had access to this boat. It was 22′ – 26′ inboard cabin cruiser.
    The SIU with their vast resources, expertise and intelligence were unable to identify this perp.
    Ward is assumed dead.
    Perhaps somebody out there can shed some light on this nagging mystery.
    Thank you all.

  8. Sylvia says:

    Yes. Does anybody know or remember anyone with OPP conections who owned or perhaps had ready access to a 22′- 26’inboard cabin cruiser back in 1975?

    Please ask around.

    Can you provide a description of the man David? Is that the man with reddish hair?

  9. David Price says:

    In 1975 he would have been in his late 20’s or early 30’s.
    Slim build, around 5’7″ – 5’9″, cop hair cut, brown hair redish tinge. He tried to avoid direct facial contact and avoided talking as much as possible.
    You know as I recall these events I can almost see his car. I think the make and model might come back to me, unfortunately I can not recall the name on the boat.

  10. Sylvia says:

    What about colour of the boat? Can you remember the colour?

  11. RealityChecker says:

    David….where did your web site go????

  12. RealityChecker says:

    Jeff Caroll was cross examined by Manderville on May 23, 2008 about the Shelley Price allegations and Caroll confirms in the testimony they subsequently involved a retired Cornwall police officer and “indeed Officer Pat Hall of the OPP”

    So….my question is….how many “Pat Hall’s” are OPP officers???

    Never mind the SIU Investigating – I’ve been thru that years ago – they’re useless!!!

    Anyone know how many OPP officers have the name Pat Hall?

  13. David Price says:

    Somewhere in my minds I see myself reading the name on the boat but I just cannot picture it, maybe I never will. As for color, I see so many white boats in my minds eye that I would say white but I am just not sure.
    My research tells me that the clan was using animal sedatives for what would now be called date rape drugs. I do not know what they drugged me with but I will tell you this.
    They gave me enough to put me down after one or two sips of beer.
    I came out of it just as the boat was returning to the marina.
    Boy was I sick. The worst headache I have ever had. It was one of those headaches that are so intense that you just think about surviving.
    The one thing that is so clear in my mind is that my clothes were all twisted on my body. I looked at Ward because I knew they had done something to me. She just says, so coldly, just staighten your clothes.
    Oh OK I’m rambling.
    I don’t know how many Pat Hall’s there could be and I have thought long and hard. I would say that Pat is also Patrick. And taking another step Hall could be Doll, Mall, All you get the point. I mean they never wrote it down and said here it is. Do you think the SIU could figure it out if there was a Patrick All. Probably not. In the end though he was definately called Pat and other officers called him what I believe is Hall. Shelley agrees.
    We continually have web site trouble. They have even been successful in having my web host turn us off. With threats I suppose. So yes we are down again.

  14. RealityChecker says:

    David….you are not alone…my understanding is the fellow from Fort Erie that Father James Kneale assaulted a number of years back was drugged. Slipped to him in booze. It would not surprise me if they were using something similiar to the date rape drug (GHB,benzos and/or Rohypnol). Would not surprise me at all!!!

  15. RealityChecker says:

    That stuff could have easily been obtained from Dr.Peachey.
    Couldn’t it?

  16. David Price says:

    Yes Dr. Peachey and others could have been a source for these drugs but we know that animal drugs were much more readily available and used in other cases. I suppose it does not really matter what the drug is they found something that worked and used it.
    That having been said. One Christmas we were poisoned by Shelley’s sister. She had put something into some chocolates. I called Dr. Peachey and told him how sick we were and what I suspected. He told me to never take any food from Cindy and he sent over some medication. What ever he sent worked for us.

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