DIALOGUE 2

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Sylvia

298 Responses to DIALOGUE 2

  1. Survive&Thrive says:

    Hi everyone. I have a question and I wondered if anyone can help. Trying to track down the official record of my abuser’s whereabouts and official standing. I understand there is a large and very expensive book issued periodically that is supposed to have every active priest listed. Anyone have access to one, who could look up a name for me? Or other suggestions? I do not live near a Catholic library and can’t go to a diocesan office.
    It’s so hard to keep track of abusers if the reasons given for them leaving a placement are lies by omission. In his case, his last parish was told “he was reassigned to Portland” and left out the part: “…because his past as a sexual abuser just made him too big a liability to keep him around here.” And in my case, the cross-border moves are particularly tricky to track. It seems it’s up to us survivors to keep blowing the whistle. Surely the bishops have to realize that is not a sustainable approach for them to take?
    Wouldn’t it be amazing if a bishop took a pledge to be honest about the real reasons for moving priests in or out of their parishes? Pipe dream…?

  2. Michel Bertrand says:

    Have you tried looking him up at bishopaccountability.org/? The post a long list of accussed priest on that site. Good luck.

  3. Sylvia says:

    Survive&Thrive, are you in Canada or the States?

  4. Brenda Brunelle says:

    My quest once my case is finally dealt with is that the Diocese will be responsible to create a resume of every priest they assign to a parish including dates served and location served. I hope that every church foyer is mandated to post these resumes so that we the faithful can look and see if our priest is one that is moved around often and if there are many geographical moves as well. This of course will not cure the problem but if a bishop is moving his men around, at least he will be accountable when forwarding his updated resume to the receiving community.

    Brenda

  5. Survive&Thrive says:

    I’m in Canada- the abuse happened in Vancouver. My abuser had hopped back and forth across the border- an American ordained in Vancouver.
    Interesting how some places like Vancouver manage to keep their abuse cases so quiet. I know of several through the grapevine besides my own case, yet the Archdiocese keeps parishioners completely in the dark. Another “accountability fantasy” – what if Dioceses were required to report the number of accusations and ongoing cases/outcomes (even without naming names) to the people they serve?

    • 1 abandoned sheep says:

      Survive & Thrive, please for your own sake, as well as those others who may have been severely harmed, continue on this road towards healing. When the pain is recognized, it is easier to see the cause for it. By dealing with it openely, and exercising discretion on what and to whom you disclose matters, it becomes easier to remember, and to confront . It is when you wish to be released from the prison abuse has cursed you to be in, only then will relief begin to slowly come.
      It would be wrong for me to say I can share your pain- but, I can understand it and pray for your recovery- and this I promise to do every day.
      Consider the above, and if you are willing, disclose the names of the evil Priests involved. GOD Bless !

  6. Anne C says:

    Survive and Thrive, you are very brave. I am from Vancouver, and yes, it is all very closed. Archbishop Carney was notoriously silent on matters. When I was little my teenage brother did some construction work for a priest at a church and I remember hearing his description of another carpenter walking in on a priest-child abuse scene. It sounded so crazy at the time, we all thought he was making it up. Now we know better. I don’t remember any other details.

    What a GREAT idea. Open up the number of abuse cases per parish across Canada.

    May you indeed survive and thrive.

  7. Leona says:

    I too wonder why things are so silent in Vancouver. The rumours certainly abounded when I was a Catholic school teacher. I’m “out of the loop” now, but it’s hard to believe that there are that many fewer cases here than in Ontario. Anne C. interesting that you mention your brother being hired to do some construction work, since that was Jack McCann’s m.o. I’m curious to know what church it was at.
    There is currently no chapter of SNAP operating in Vancouver, but I have been contacted through John Shuster, the SNAP representative in Seattle to speak with another survivor. If there is enough interest, we will consider heading up a local chapter of SNAP.

  8. Anne C says:

    Leona, I am highly supportive of SNAP. A Vancouver chapter would be good. God knows they shuffled off enough Christian Brothers out to BC when they left Mt. Cashel – something few people also talk about. I think the church was maybe Saint Peter and Paul. It was not our local church, my brother was just hired to work on a job. It would have been maybe 1980, or earlier. I don’t remember McCann. Interesting what you say about hiring teenage carpenters. Yes, my brother was probably telling the truth after all.

  9. Michel Bertrand says:

    Now why would anyone lie about such a thing… we never lie to get into a jackpot or trouble, we lie to get out of trouble or messes, at least that has been my experience in dealing with children. Some may say the motivation is for settlements however the shame, fear, embattled relations and persecution as well as the test of credibility that comes with disclosure does not make for easy money. Courage is going beyond those fears and standing for what is right. The people reclaiming their souls have need of our support. Bravo men and women of truth !

    • Anne C says:

      I absolutely agree Michel. Victims do not lie about these matters, ever – no one would ever go through the pain and public exposure like that willingly. I too applaud them. This comment was more about a kid (me) not believing anything her older brother told her!

  10. Cheryl-Helene Thomson says:

    The latest documented Vatican corruption from Reuters, as an insight into the character of the leadership:

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/01/26/vatican-corruption-idINDEE80P0E620120126

  11. Lina says:

    Cheryl-HeleneThomson and others,
    I also get discourage the way justice is slow for the clergy abuse victims.
    Also about those numerous Roman Catholics that do NOT seem to care enough for these victims.

    The Church officials are banking big time that these clergy abuse victims will NOT come forward.
    Some may be waiting and hoping that these poor victims die before their case is heard. Sadly, many have died.

    The excuse that ticks me off… ‘But that priest(s) or that monsignor(s) is dead.’
    I say to them but his victims are not!

    Furthermore, other priests/clergy are still alive and know about these priest(s) or monsignor(s) crimes and cover-ups. They do not want to get involve. They will not come forward on their own.
    Heaven forbid that they get disrupted from that comfy chair of theirs.

    The only way to move these priests is only when the law is able to step in. Even then they complain they are being persecuted.
    You would think their security snuggie blanket was being away from them.

    It hurts when you have Catholic people; parishioners that seem not to care and still give generously to the Church like nothing ever happened…like being in denial of these cases of abuses are real.

    I want to believe there are folks out there that DO care about the clergy abuse victims but they are in that mode in leaving it up to other guy/gal to do something about it.

    That saying that comes up time and time again: “Leave this stuff, put these crimes in God’s hands, and don’t worry about it.”
    These people might as well tell the statues to do the work.

    I recall all those clergy abuse victims that DID stepped forward and did go through the court system. They are the real heroes in my eyes; they are the ones that put up with all that filthy crap that the Catholic Church puts forward to stop them from the truth to come out.

    To those misguided people that back predator priests no matter what the evidences tells them. Pathetic!

    What pisses me off is when I hear a convicted predator priest’s family who are known to be so goodie-goodie and they talk about a certain priest’s victims and their families to their friends…it’s all the fault of the accusers, those victims.

    I know a very close friend of a convicted priest revealed stuff that would hurt….I will not go there.
    How do you think I got the NAMES of the VICTIMS of this convicted priest?

    As for Sylvia…at first when I just got to know about her and her work, I recall thoughts of doubts about her when I found out she was a convert to Catholicism.

    From experiences, I’ve learn a person who converts to the Catholic Church is more Catholic than a Catholic. I later learned Sylvia uses good common sense. She is not what you call a radical Catholic. She does very important good work.

    I’m glad she’s not a statue! Lol…lol

    Lina

  12. Anne C says:

    I like what you’re saying Lina. Amen sister.

    • Lina says:

      Thank-you Anne for that response to my post.

      At one time I thought a few extra statues of the Virgin Mary would help all those males in the seminary. Yes, I was naive.

      Then I get this idea I got this sort of calling from God.

      I honestly believe I was chosen to help all those ‘healthy, normal gay priests’…well that was friggen disaster!

      Talk about making an a-hole of myself.

      Just because I’m a mother of a gay (adult) son does not qualify me to fix the problems with all those gay priests in the Catholic Church. What was I thinking?
      Becoming a future patron saint of gay priests? I don’t think so.
      I must have read too many saints’ stories in my day.

      My youngest son said people will think I’m crazy. I’m already in that state. Thanks to many Roman Catholic people and the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

      There are other factors involved (too numerous to mention here) but my Catholic faith is in deep shambles.

      I do not trust priests. Especially, priests in the confessional. I also do not trust their superiors…those male clergy that wear all those odd and weird shape hats.

      I say: ” Lord, I’m in a state of mortal sin and I do not seem to give a crap. What can WE do about it?”

      The only honest thing I can do now is to throw myself on God’s Divine Mercy, Jesus who died on that Cross for me.

      • 1 abandoned sheep says:

        Lina, pray to God for guidance. HE will NOT fail you, You will find a Priest to go to Confession to, and tell him you want to make a General Confession.
        We all are able to make mistakes- but GOD did not make us a MISTAKE !
        Your calling in life now is to do the things you need to do in order to die, whenever your time comes, in the State of Grace ! We all have to fight to keep from falling into despair. Despair is when we doubt the Holy Spirit can save us , when He is there just waiting for us to ask Him to do so.
        Nothing can possibly be more important than the Salvation of your own Soul! God desires that!
        Please know GOD The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all love you, and want you to come to them in prayer, asking for help !

      • Anne C says:

        Lina, Your reply show your honesty, humour and wisdom and most of all, your survival instinct. I believe that God sees our pain, loves us all the same – and that is real. But I also think it’s normal ‘not to give a crap’ in some ways, and I wouldn’t try to convince you otherwise. My post is short – because people here tend to attack each other’s posts – and I too – like the person in the post below – find it upsetting. There is a lot of pain, here, and everywhere. I still say, stay close to God. God is the coolest of all. Take care.

        • Lina says:

          I enjoy reading your post Anne.

          Your posts projects some level of goodness in all of us to seek. As JG explained himself to you in his post so clearly.

          I don’t seem to have problem with God (God may say otherwise, *grin*) but I seem to have a problem with some of his people especially many of his priests.

          I have 3 songs that lifts my spirits.

          1. “The Our Father”
          sung by Sister Janet Mead (1974 version)

          (yes folks she still a nun after all these years)

          Google it or listen to it on YouTube

          2. “Shepherd Me O God”
          (base on Psalm 23)

          This is to all the clergy who have helped me
          especially to 2 priests
          (they know who they are)
          This song also brings me hope for all clergy abuse victims)

          3. “Waves Of Mercy”

          (This is when I make believe all is well here, at Fr. Tim’s blog site, we are all healed, we all get along
          and have this large cyber space group dance.
          It’s fun for awhile then it’s back to the real world, reality)

          The song is very up beat you can google it or listen to it on YouTube

          Waves Of Mercy Lyrics

          Every move I make, I make in You
          You make me move Jesus
          Every breath I take, I breathe in You

          Every step I take, I take in You
          You are my way Jesus
          Every breath I take, I breathe in You

          Waves of mercy, waves of grace
          Everywhere I look, I see your face
          Your love has captured me
          Oh my God, this love
          How can it be?
          la la la la la la etc…
          ——————-
          Enough for me, I’ve been spending too much time with my computer I got to go.

          Keep up the good work Sylvia.

  13. JG says:

    I’m throwing a bottle out to sea…or more likely “The Rideau Canal”!..
    I have talked about this with Sylvia before and now seems a good time to ask the question( Elizabeth on another post:”500 plus sex abuse…expiry looms” was the catalyst!)

    Back in 1971, when I was visiting Madonna House, at Christmas time, I was informed by a resident(?) to visit/get in touch with a priest in the Parish of Rockland…He was in the process of setting up a youth, family summer camp…They were looking for a caretaker and they(at Madona House) thought I would be a good candidate…always very handy with tools, woodworking-(even helped Mike O”Brien slaughter 6 pigs before Christmas …)
    So, with this information in hand I made my way to Rockland on a Friday just before New Year’s . This is 1971.
    The first night slept at the rectory, breakfast the next morning and off to “the farm” the next day, to the east of Ottawa…It is all a bit blurry but there was a priest with a group of young people, anywhere from 5 to 10 years older than me. At supper that night, keeping in mind I don’t know any of these people, I receive a gift from the priest, “late for Christmas” he said…It was a small figurine of a monk that showed an erection when you pressed on its plastic head(!) Even at that age, I thought that was so wrong, weird, inappropriate…I forced a smile as they were all around the table laughing their heads off…
    I left them early after the supper using the pretext I was tired but went to the second floor to sleep on a small mattress …awake and wondering what the hell I got myself into until they all left..late in the morning.
    An old man, the current caretaker had a similar mattress at the other end of the room…The next day in the morning I had breakfast with this old man who told me the food he had to do with was their leftovers all over the kitchen…and a lot of empty wine bottles!
    I questioned this thing about the statuette…he was embarassed, didn’t want to say anything except to counsel me to not stay there, that it wasn’t a good place….that he didn’t have a choice, no other place to go…

    I left that farm(east of Rockland I believe it was) hitch-hiking in a blinding snow storm to return to Madonna House…I told someone on my return not to send anybody else at that place…
    Are any of the readers familiar with this place..did it ever get off the ground. Since getting into this clerical abuse of children, I have wondered if I hadn’t once more dodge the bullet…
    Who would the priest have been at that time..

    Thanks
    jg

    • JG says:

      I am not going to continue yesterday’s train wreck…I posted my opinion on the McGuire tread, prima facie agreed with my take…then the questions and the little nudges started ,very innocently…without much time taken to reflect…I have observed the same thing occurring over and over.I would hope it is not intentional…mostly careless.Enough on this.

      I see there is one comment here by “Servant” Ballard about “gossip”…This the point I wish to cover right here.
      I hope you are not taking the above post to mean that I am trying to sully “Madonna House”, which I gather is in the Pembroke area…
      As a teenager, Madonna House was for me a source of happiness and a place where I would probably have remained were it not for a narrow minded decision …I have explained it before on another tread and I will repeat the story if someone is interested. I have always referred to my memories from “Madonna House” as a guide for my Spiritual life, for caring and sharing, for raising my children…As a matter of fact, the life I lead with my wife I could say is loosely modeled on my recollections and the balm of my time there…
      The previous post came yesterday when I thought it could stop what I could see looming. I am still waiting for something on the Rockland information and I would be relieved if someone told me no one was hurt at that farm…
      Guess what? I thought Moyle or Ballard could be the ones to help. Not being cynical, not attacking priests: “sometimes a question is just that”…
      I find quite often too many are not taking five, counting to ten anyway, to hear what people are saying…Unfortunately “the priests”(don’t raise your blood pressure again, please!) respond like caged animals. For one who sat and spoke with the “B” and understanding the reverence and care she had for priests I frankly only have pain and sorrow when it seems so many have lost their way. I wish they were more concerned with the quality of their interventions, not the quantity. I wish they were more concerned about the Spirituality lacking in our Lives before their own sexuality, trying to justify or worry about homosexuality, pedophiles or…enough.
      I wish priests were the Servants of Christ, practicing walking on water(!)… instead of battling everyone. There are some bad priests who were really impostors from the start. There are good priests out there. I am looking but I and a lot of others are guarded. Sometimes a great “challenge” should be an occasion to “turn the other cheek”…to pass the test!….
      Sometimes being a good priest would require just that : being Good. You should be thankful, if you really believe what you preach, that you were chosen to share the Pain of the world, in His name.
      Be patient and look after your own little garden. That might set the tone for the neighbor. Have faith…mountains do move!
      If I ever heard that “Madonna House” was less now than it was in 1971, that somehow that ministry was tainted…maybe the darkest day and most painful treason for me…Then my pain would need healing…
      Reality Checker mentioned it elsewhere, I have never hidden who I am and you can “identify” me very easily under accused “Leon Gagnon”…
      I am not on facebook, don’t have a website, don’t need for anyone to know me because of some narcissistic tendency…I like my simple life…and I don’t want anyone to know my name… I only wish to help even one person, if I can. One child who needs comfort and care. Having my name everywhere feels arrogant to me.
      So it is simply,

      jg

  14. Lina says:

    Yes, I’m hurt by the actions Fr. Tim Moyle and Fr. Steven Ballard.

    This website is so important for the clergy abuse victims and all those who support these victims.

    It seems both of these priests had an agenda, to cause pain for Sylvia and find way to close this website.

    Fr. Moyle and Fr. Ballard believe they need to get together and assemble a ‘National Assembly of Priests’ and as the first order of business retain the services of a team of lawyers who will scrutinize every single syllable that is typed on this blog.

    Who is going to pay for these team of lawyers?

    Fr. Steven Ballard himself? Fr. Tim Moyle (he said his parish is poor) The Bishop, maybe he could sell his house? Will the parishioners find special envelopes in their pew one day to help pay these lawyers? Only time will tell.

    I hope the investigation by the law into the Pembroke Diocese is ALREADY in progress.

    So many priests in the Diocese of Pembroke ON are getting very squirrelly.

    Goodnight!

    Lina

    • Sweet dreams Lina! No one was harmed in the production of this evenings entertainment, I can assure you. No need to fear some furtive cleric sneaking into to scare you in the night.

      Do you know what. We are in complete agreement! I also hope that any legak investigation by the law into the Pembroke Diocese is ALREADY in progress. It will provide an avenue for people with information to step forward. This will rid the Church of any remaining predators from its midst. It should (but won’t) put to rest the sharing of rumors about Fr. X or Fr. Y. I say ‘won’t because quite simply, gossip is a universal scourge. No one is exempt or untouched. Still it should at least tamp down enthusiasm for believing those who try to traffic in rumor and gossip and falsely pass themselves off as being in possession of ‘devastating information’ or ‘scandalous truths’ only to be shown to be frauds.

      Perhaps as you drift off, you can contemplate this for me: is it necessary to permit lies and slander to pass itself off as truth so as to not frighten off someone with a legitimate case? That’s what you are arguing. How can the pursuit of truth and existence of false testimony be compatible with each other. For that is what is necessary if what you propose is true. I would only seem to be able to put such disparate concepts together outside of the dream state. Perhaps it’s the same for you.

      I’ve got this sudden urge to rush off and see if there are any peanuts or cashews here before I scamper off to my nest for the night. G’Night.

      Fr. Tim

      • Reality Checker says:

        “No one was harmed in the production of this evenings entertainment, I can assure you. No need to fear some furtive cleric sneaking into to scare you in the night.”

        Can I please ask how many victims on this site are reassured by these words from a Catholic priest???

        Fr Tim – again it just goes to show how utterly out of touch you really are.

    • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

      Your hurt is self-inflicted. You and prima and jg need to stop trafficking in baseless and silly gossip. Period. I regret being harsh, but some of us have had it with the open season on priests and specifically priests of the Diocese of Pembroke. I understand the sadness and betrayal folks feel about the two cases we have faced. I feel the same way. However, let’s not lose our heads and cultivate a myriad of conspiracy theories or suggest that some of us have covered up cases or that ‘I hear that more cases are coming’. If you are going to utter such talk, I say give me the proof. If this is gossip off the street, keep it to yourself.

  15. Michel Bertrand says:

    Jeez a lot of people cleric and otherwise walking around with two by fours stuck in their eyes tonight ..relax people think about how to support victims and how you instill an institution that has the capacity for protecting the innocent from abuse cleric or otherwise. Truly this not making the good old RC church an attractive place to worship. I think Anne is another voice of reason here.

  16. Sylvia: Message received. Now let me put this question to you: Would you explain please why it is that others are allowed to post lies and innuendo slandering the priests of the Diocese, stating that we have ‘hidden knowledge’ that we are conspiring to keep from the Police and the public with impunity, but when a couple of us fight back by pointing out this malice, we are threatened with banishment from your blog? Do you honestly believe that there is any ‘glory’ in facilitating slander and lies? Are you only concerned about the rights of those who wish to damage our reputation and the rights of innocent priests are not worth being concerned about?

    I appreciate your discomfort with last nights activities. I felt the same. It is not pleasant dealing with people who will lie to slander innocent – irrespective of whether the lies are coming from Bishops and priests or from others groundlessly attacking them. But why are you only concerned about clerics who demand justice and choose to ignore when we are flagrantly slandered? Such a politic is unworthy of the good work you (and us!!!) are trying to accomplish: bringing the light of truth into every corner of these sordid affairs.

    Fr. Tim

    • Michel Bertrand says:

      A little prayer and meditation might be suggested or do you people still do this ? You self identify as cleric and should act accordingly. I had begun to have some respect for your view Tim however I would like to say that yesterday’s banter was alarming in that some restraint of pen and tongue may have been the better course to take as a men of the cloth. Nobody likes to see innocent men or women wrongfully judged however you must understand that once an allegation has been made regardless of outcome the Church should be responsible for making sure that no further access to children or that priest in doubt be placed in situations where children might be hurt. The listing of priest who have been named in such circumstances should not be given a carte blanche to continue their ministry without a modicum of concern for the potential for there having been an error in the process. Your found innocent and you are the adults so hence adjust yourself to that and serve the Church in a manner that removes all question and doubt and assures the safety of the flock. All the other stones cast where unnecessary.

      • Michel: I agree completely with everything that you write. And, yes the rhetoric and language used last night was excessive and abusive. I freely admit this. But at the same time may I suggest that it was intended as a ‘walk a mile in my shoes’ lesson. The tone mirrored perfectly the reflexive abuse response that fills the remarks that follows whenever a priest posts here.

        Fr. Steve offered a few polite, proper and respectful comments only to be assaulted with insults to his honesty and integrity in reply. Note that he initially responded with charity to the first couple of innuendos impugning his integrity. However the expanding scope of the allegations only grows larger again. As priests and Christians we are trained to turn the other cheek. We have both done so here many times. But there is no obligation in scripture or dogma that requires that we submissively permit ourselves to be unjustly beaten! Believe me too when I say that I would (and have many times as a columnist on the Holy Post, the religion blog of the National Post) jump to the defense of you or anyone else if they are being assaulted with such unsubstantiated and vicious insults as was being hurled at Fr. Steve in particular and the rest of we Pembroke priests in whole.

        It really comes to down to one simple question: In the pursuit of truth, as I sincerely Sylvia strives to do with honesty and integrity, is it necessary to permit the slander of others with false accusations and innuendo, effectively ‘poisoning the well’ of the public square so that everyone would find the voices of priests rendered unpalatable within the Pembroke Diocese? I believe that answer is ‘no’. It simply requires that everyone here as elsewhere respect the tenets of the Golden Rule and ‘do unto others as you would them do onto you’.

        I would find it hard to believe that anyone could disagree with that no matter their beliefs in these discussions. Priests deserve the same respect as anyone else.

        Thank you for your thoughtful and civil comment to last nights affair. It is greatly appreciated.

        Fr. Tim

        • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

          Bravo Tim – n.b. ‘warnings’ have been given – but not a single cogent reply to the very credible questions you and I have put to Sylvia about what you have outlined.

          My last thought for today – some think that being ‘men of the cloth is antithetical to the concept of speaking out with passion and demanding fair and just treatment. Such persons would do well to look to the lives of St John Chrysostom, John of Avila, Teresa of Avila, St. Paul and Blessed John Paul II. Perhaps an encounter with Father Michael Ryan might also be instructive! Have a great day!

          • 1 abandoned sheep says:

            I would recommend St. Francis-de-Sales if you are really looking for guidance as to what a good Priest should be.

        • Michel Bertrand says:

          A wise old wino once told me that it is up to us to turn the other cheek like you say but he added if you keep getting slapped it is up to us to duck. I would hope that it is understood that many that post here are injured in some form or another by the abuse that they have lived personally or vicariously in some way or another and I feel that people who are helpers would see the need to be empathetic to their concerns and not defend the cause of those traumas. Noting an allegation is just that noting an allegation and should be. My interest here is specific to a case I was involved with many years ago however I see that there is a very real need for people to come together with the goal of making places for children to be safe in their spiritual growth. A good solid foundation of spirituality can safeguard a person from so many hardships that life throws our way naturally. Likewise a trauma attached to that spiritual development can take a lifetime to redress. As you may have surmised I am not big on the Church or clerics for my own personal reasons but I am big on being of service and building a better world and what I see now is that the Catholic Church needs to be more contrite, empathetic and understand the effect that it’s bad and ugly have had on it’s membership. The good have a stake in making this occur and it is not in defending the bad or the ugly but in fixing structures so that bad and ugly no longer occurs.

  17. Lina says:

    This is good welcoming news. Sylvia’s post is well worth repeating.

    “Fathers Ballard and Moyle, you have covered neither yourselves nor the priesthood in glory in the above threads. You have both had your say and then some. I trust you enjoyed ‘the game.’ If the pair of you want to pat each other on the back, sling further insults at those who blog on this site, set up a National Assembly of Priests, and/or hire a team of lawyers please hash it out on Father Tim’s site.

    If the either or both of you go on a run like this again on this site you will be blocked – permanently.”
    ———————————————————-

    This is why folks, the police tell victims and people with important information not to go and talk to Catholic Church officials.

    People you are not being cruel or disloyal to the Catholic Church you are just being SMART.

    As for Fr. Tim Moyle and Fr. Steven Ballard.

    If there are consequences that arises from what the both of you posted at this website and this news finds its way across the Pembroke Diocese.

    Do not fall in that denial, defiance, deception, and deflection mode and blame your parishioners or other folks from other places in the Ottawa valley.

    Remember…you both brought it all on yourselves.

    • Lina: I am trembling in my boots. If you think standing up for oneself is something to be ashamed of, perhaps one fear the public or any Church official examining the entirety of recent posts here in general and last night in particular. The integrity of priests and Bishops have been portrayed as being unconcerned for the welfare of children because those tasked by civil powers to investigate allegation of abuse decline to press charges. Commentary is absolutely replete with such posts.

      Let me ask you something. How do you (or Sylvia, or anyone else here) know that the matter wasn’t handled quickly and efficiently to ensure that children were protected in this case exactly as they were supposed to do? The only point that Sylvia has to sustain her innuendo that Bishop Harris, with malice, deliberately put children at risk is that it was not made public. If the Bishop (who has just recently been transferred there and would have no prior first hand knowledge regarding this priest) removed the cleric from ministry upon discovering the fact; if he ensured that the Police were informed; if he did his due diligence to investigate whether or not the accused priest was a predator, gathering evidence for his church trial to come; WHAT DID HE DO WRONG!!! There is NO evidence that he impeded an investigation. There is NO evidence that any sort of cover-up or recycling of a predator was back into ministry somewhere else. The ONLY tidbit of info provided is that he might be a grocery clerk in a Sobey’s store!! Trust me… unless someone would drop dead at his feet, a priest would not be ministering in a grocery store! What more do you want? Was Bishop Harris obliged to stand in the pulpit and immediate turn God knows how many children into targets of public gossip as probable victims because they were heard to have been in the priests company during those years? Why should the demand for a pound of flesh supersede the obligation to ensure the ‘best interests and welfare of the children in the parish’.

      This is NOT a personal disagreement with Sylvia efforts with this blog. We breathe as one when it comes to our desire to rid the Church of predators and legitimately call its Bishops to practice justice. I have said so to her in person. I have said so here as well. But I am perfectly within my rights to point out when I think that she is mistaken. I have said so from the beginning of this conversation a few days ago when I joined Glen is expressing my concern about the tone and presentation of the ‘Darkness’ controversy. We do not disagree on goal or strategy but this is a disagreement of tactics.

      So please, feel free to send copies of this correspondence to anyone you wish. I will even look up and post addresses if it will help you. There are more than enough good folks with an appreciation for two Valley priests with Irish roots standing up for themselves and other. I would welcome the exposure. I’m sure Fr. Steve would feel the same. At least I assume so. We did not communicate or coordinate in advance or during last night debacle aside from what we posted here save for one exchange where he sent me an email late in the night predicting that Sylvia would threaten us with banishment, something she does not threaten to do to others. I didn’t read the message until I sat down at my computer early this morning after a good nights sleep with a clear conscience. I regret if you didn’t have the same.

      Fr. Tim

      P.S. I do promise, today no more than 5 comments. Too nice a day here at my cottage for my first day off in three weeks to want to spend it here. But fear not, I have no intention of going away for good. Were I to be banned from here by Sylvia, it will be great material for a column in the NP! My editors love it when columnists spark controversial responses. It drives numbers through the roof, something that both they and I appreciate with our respective blogs. Two priests picking a fight with the most popular Canadian site dealing with ‘blogging (about) the sex abuse scandal and betrayals of trust in the Roman Catholic Church in (of) Canada’ – a site which generate 15,000 visits a day or more would certainly be of interest to many more. If Sylvia truly desires what she claims, (exposure for her allegations, with all the concomitant result of linking her blog to the clergy of today’s Catholic Church) she would appreciate the publicity. If she doesn’t want people to make this connection she should take care to practice as she preaches and apply one standard lest she invites a reaction she doesn’t want.

      • Lina says:

        Fr. Tim Moyle and your friend Fr. Steven Ballard,
        you are both well educated men.

        I’m not that well educated.
        I do have a high school diploma and it took my all to get it.

        I’m not naive as I use to be.

        That is thanks to all the information I got at Sylvia’s site and especially from the CLERGY ABUSE VICTIMS themselves.

        The warnings I got from Msgr. Robert Borne’s victims were a great help.

        Both of you priests have done enough damage to my spiritual life.

        Both of you is the very reason that I do not go to confess my sins to a priest.

        If our paths shall cross at some point (face to face) and trust me it will soon happen, I pray that you will conduct yourself with dignity and carry out your duties like any normal priest should.

      • Reality Checker says:

        So Father Tim did have an agenda – he even spells it out above – why does that NOT surprise me???

  18. Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

    With charity I say that many on this blog do not read well or ignore the obvious. And so I recap the accusations, bad manners, arrogance and hate speech thrown in my direction – all unprovoked (yesterday):

    Mr Bateman aka prima (1:16pm) 
    (Founder of Project TRUTH)

    “Father Steve: I have written for years on this site about this topic. If you do not know how I feel about this, then I am not about to get into a debate with you. As I see it, you must simply be one of a multitude of surrogates interested in forming public opinion to suit your own means and the people you represent ie) The Church et al. There have been many before you. Briefly; in my opinion and based on my experiences, many victims/survivors NOT ALL, are manipulated into “settlements” etc., even if they the are purported to have asked for them. Re: your lawyer question-obviously you are relatively new to the site or in a phase of short-term memory loss. Get real Father. I have more friends that are lawyers and I have interacted with more lawyers who I would never spend a moment of day with, than you will ever dream of. A lawyer can spin any interpretation he wants to “for the greater good”, depending on who’s defining “the Greater Good” these days. Really, I mean really Father. Take your dribble to someone who will buy it!”

    “Finally, you know what? All the scholars, authorities, social workers-past and present and other
    Professionals posting on this site and following this site know it also. In my humble opinion, you are despicable, self-preserving cowards.”

    (1:23pm)

    “….in addition Father Steve. I do not expect you to understand my point, however, in your case, I suggest that you do. And, you ask if you are missing something. My reply would normally include further details. But, in your case and being in the Diocese of Pembroke, with the years or problems your Diocese has had; I would give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are simply “blind”.

    Mr. Bateman (8:48pm)

    “Be it known, that as offensive as you find my so-called insults, I find equally as offensive, your efforts to, as I see it, “keep the flock in the dark”. You and Father Steve, especially Father Steve (because of his previous positions held within the Church) are well versed on legal matters; this I find most distasteful; that is arguing from a legal perspective when most laymen know little and you or Father Steve know different.”

    Mr Gagnon  aka jg (3:00pm)

    Steve Ballard,
    You can sound offended if you will but I think if you had taken more then 10-15 minutes to throw a little pebble at “prima facie” and spent time reflecting…maybe staying on subject instead of deflecting, redirecting …even answering a question with another question, you would have participated in more civility..It is often the case when the subject is too close to home, someone of “the cloth” starts with nonsense to distract into another direction…I think this is a recurrent pattern to keep the turmoil and distract. Is that learned in seminary or through weekend retreats….Not sarcastic, just an observation…and one of the many reasons which make it difficult to be “trusting” …Too many mind games.
    Today I was going to have a good word for you and Tim Moyle for simply speaking out as priests, with your own identity, unlike others lurking in the shadows…I think you knew exactly what the result of your “challenge” with “prima facie” would bring…always too “subtle” but always aware of which button to press…A bit of innocent sabotage!”

    1abandonedsheep Anonymous (10:22pm)

    But, do you get so upset when you know about the abuse that has taken place in the Diocese of Pembroke by Priests other then Prince and Borne?
    And do you report it to the Police?
    You know of other cases, in Round Lake, and Renfrew, and Arnprior, and have not gone to the police about those as far as I am aware.”

    For the last time: it is immoral, unjust and criminal to suggest that any person has covered up a crime, especially those perpetuated against the innocent without a shred of evidence! I have never, would never and could never do so. It is immoral to spread gossip about anyone. If Mr Bateman or sheep have information concerning any criminal actions among the clergy anywhere – call the police immediately.

    I realize now why Mr Bateman spews the venom he does – he was sued by the former Bishop of Cornwall, some other priests, among others. I know now that he is certainly not a lawyer, based on what I read. While I admire his efforts in the Cornwall hell storm, I do wish he would stick to the TRUTH and temper whatever distaste he has for priests. I am profoundly disappointed in the double standards being used by our moderator. MY trust level for her now is below zero based on her unwillingness to even engage in answering questions or righting wrongs.

    A sign of holiness is not just to appear in nicely ironed ‘blacks’ hiding out in the chapel praying. It’s also about taking positions and fighting for the most vulnerable and caring for those who hurt. Compassion and care are expressed in a variety of ways.

    Finally, I thank Lisa for her courage. You are in my prayers.

    (PS no worries Sylvia, my last of the day!)

    • 1 abandoned sheep says:

      Father Ballard: I have been wondering if your feigned outrage over Fr. Leclair’s name being on the site has anything to do with your being familiar with the Casino in Hull? I , for one, Have seen you there at least once.

      • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

        I realized that my five quota was one short – sheep I wish you would have come over and said hello, I would have bought you a beer. Hull is a bit ‘snooty’ for my liking. Las Vegas is much better. I met Bette Midler, have flown by chopper into the Grand Canyon and saw ‘O’ in the Bellagio theatre. Let me tell you, if you never dine in Picasso in Las Vegas, life has slipped by on you!

        So what’s your name? You say you have known me since I was fifteen. Don’t hide, show yourself. Or are you scared? I can’t wait to serve as a priest in Renfrew again. Great great people.

        • 1 abandoned sheep says:

          Father Ballard, I have no reason other than some other things I do could be adversely affected if my name was to come out right now.
          You chummed around with Pete S. My nephew, and you gave the last rights to my Mother in the Renfrew Hospital in Sept of 1990. She died the next day.
          Las Vegas would never be my style, and I have been to Medjugorje 8 times taking about 250 people with me on the pilgrimages. That is my style !
          I have not had a drink of alcohol in close to 30 years, so I could not take one now.
          Please be aware that many good, silent people read this Blog, and as humans, will form opinions about frequent contributors. The Marx Bros. performance between you and Fr. Moyle yesterday did nothing for victims, their families, or for the Glory of God !

          • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

            Ah! The picture becomes clearer.

            I don’t think that false accusations against Father Moyle or me are a laughing matter. What would you have us do, not engage and hide under the covers?

            PS Vegas is great! Your nephew and I had a great time there last January. Not for everyone I concede! God bless you!

          • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

            Forgot to mention, I too enjoyed Medjugorje immensely and look forward to returning. Celebrating mass in the Church of St Blase in Dubrovnik was very very special. What a beautiful, prayerful place Medjugorje is!

    • JG says:

      iabandonned sheep…sorry for squeezing in..

      “Servant ” Ballard,
      You either don’t bother to read anything or you have had another “ooops!” moment…wilful or careless?..

      “Gagnon” was my Father’s abuser…was this another “innocent” jab…see what I meant in my previous entries?…
      If not innocent, downright EVIL!

      Jean-Guy Theriault

    • Michel Bertrand says:

      Oh grow up and stop pitying yourself it is not about you.

  19. JG says:

    …and where do you fit in so righteously .
    jg

    • Michel Bertrand says:

      My post is solely directed to the priest, I am sorry I have lost my patience on this matter but the contribution of this priest is nothing short of ridiculous. I stand with the survivors of these crimes.

      • JG says:

        Michel,
        I got your reply yesterday and I understood…just didn’t want to add to the confusion. Read your “balanced “posts before and this really threw me for a spin…Full moon looming at the horizon!!!..Thought we were all “loosing it”!
        No damage!

        jg

  20. Sylvia says:

    Don’t start in on each other. This is so terribly reminiscent of before Christmas. Don’t let the tidal wave unleashed here last night take you down. Stay above it.

  21. FSS says:

    To Father Steve and Tim I have a question to ask? Do you not have anything else to do? You have toomuch time it seems!. After morning Mass, no house visits, no school visits, no hospital visits! Many priests do this, so they do not have time to get on the internet day and night and lash out at people . As I mentioned earlier you both certainly are not exemplary priests for others to follow. Prove by your very life that you are good priests, but your writings on this web site proves the other way! I may be wrong. Again I say live a life like Jesus did. No matter how many of your brother priests are being caught as child preditors or abusers, the people will love you and respect you as a priest if you behave like Jesus. That is what you are called to be. But if you both continue to behave this way you are doing more harm to the church and yourself.
    Please understand the pain, hurt the victims of clerical sex abuse go through in his/her life. Please understand the betrayal of your brother priests of Jesus himself and His children . The priests who abused children are worse than Judas.
    Now you both will reply saying that we are also angry and sad about what happend to the innocent children , but your writings on this website peoves otherwise.

    • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

      Hey f! What’s your name and what do u do for a living. Btw today is my dayoff. Let’s chat.

      • FSS says:

        Dear Father Steve,Tim,
        You want to know who I am . Just for your sake I would like to say I do the same thing you do for living . F- Father S S is my last name and first name. Absolutely I have no intention to have a chat with you .This is the first time I write on this site, though I was going through this site occasionally. I have not intention of writing or replying anymore. This is my last post. I pray for the victims every day! God Bless them , comfort them . Good bye. “Cum – passion”: means “suffer with “. That is what Jesus did , that is what you are called to be. Priesthood is not a job, it’s a commitment.

        • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

          Bless you father and your ministry! I would love to speak to you sometime about a couple of really great verbal matches I have had with two bishops. They didn’t like it and I did not care!

  22. Lona Hegeman, Northwest Territories, Canada says:

    I agree with Michael. Steve and Tim are the aggressors — and they are petulant tiresome bullies right now. The idea that Steve is a priest anywhere gives me the chills. On to important matters of the day: I did post update on disgraced Oblate Eric DeJaeger’s court appearance – a cut and paste from Nunatsiaq News. I am told Nunavut News will be providing their EDJ update tomorrow. Will post that as well. Will be in Iqaluit later this week.

    • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

      Of course you would have the chills, you ate in the north. Bishop Murray Chatlain of Mackenzie-Fort Smith is probably in the top five bishops in Canada. Have you met him?

  23. Lona Hegeman, Northwest Territories, Canada says:

    Hahaha Good one.

    For sure. Knew him before we had the good fortune of having him join us in the North.

    • Father Steve Ballard (Diocese of Pembroke) says:

      He was down here recently for the funeral mass of Deacon Michael McFarlane. What a beautiful person he is and a great bishop. The north is blessed! Blessings to you!

  24. Elizabeth says:

    Wow!
    I was going to watch television tonight but reading “keeping the flock in the dark” has been far more entertaining.

    Tim and Steve – forgive me (pun intended), but since you no longer talk like priests, it’s difficult to use the salutation – “Father.” (I never liked using that title anyway.)

    It’s not often we hear such diatribe from priests. Your ranting reminded me of the character in the film Network, who yells, “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore.” (Batshit crazy! Sadly funny! Totally inappropriate!)

    However, when the shock factor wore off, I couldn’t help but try to put myself in your shoes. You must be angry: furious with your peers; disappointed that people suggest you’ve turned a blind eye, when, by your admission you haven’t; and scared that some day, someone could falsely accuse you of that which you abhore. Who would want your job? (Or should I say calling? Calling? Does God have a sense of humour?)

    What a paradox! Some turn to you for guidance, while others criticize your every move. Exhausting. You’ve had enough? Circle the wagons, band the priests together, call in the lawyers, or maybe just take your marbles and go home. .. (Preferably none of the above.)

    Listen to people like Lisa. Victims on this site want nothing from you other than your support in our quest for justice. Actions speak louder than words. Your offer of prayers, although meant respectfully, appears shallow and distracting. You want to assemble priests from across the country? Okay, how about an assembly of priests for justice? – there’s an idea!

  25. Larry Green says:

    There is no need to make excuses for their behaviour Elizibeth , believe me , both are simply being themselves!!!

  26. PJ says:

    When I first started reading the blogs on this site, I was thinking that Tim was a priest that could be trusted…now I am not sure. Both he and Steve have really turned me away from them with their rantings and protectionism of the last few days. I have had dealings with another priest years ago who I thought to be genuine, but when I broke down and began my quest for justice from my abuse (and that of the 13 others also abused by the same priest in the 60s), I confided in him and got the same type of response that these two priests have demonstrated here. Reading their comments of the last few days took me back to that earlier time and all the trust I thought I might have to talk with these two vanished. Maybe there is a blessing here…never to let my guard down to any RC priest.

  27. Reality Checker says:

    “No need to fear some furtive cleric sneaking into to scare you in the night.”

  28. Well,

    Here is my take on this one, I was molested within the church in SAINT JOHN. I first laid a complaint to the church over four years ago, I am also dealing with the Bishop Harris and getting nowhere. They say they are ” investigating ” and you can not talk to the bishop directly about your case, you can only deal with a delegate. Now in 4 years I have personally chewed through a few delegates. So they assign another one and start all over again. They are all bullsh*t tactics to delay and hopefully the complainant will give up and move on. They tried that sh*t with me, I then went to the police dept. last year and still waiting on the results of that investigation, meanwhile the man is still out in public without any restrictions.

    Starting Monday I will start a media campaign into this case and demand answers. We will post what we find. Thanks Sylvia for all that you do for Survivors and to protect the children of the future.

    Dave Mantin
    Atlantic Canada S.N.A.P Leader
    http://snapatlantic.tk
    [email protected]

  29. JG says:

    To Anne C. (short for “cassonade”…)

    I have to apologize to you for not “taking care ” of you… I know that you are one of those gentle hearts who look for good always and always find it, sometimes to their detriment … You come on this site with your big heart ready to Love everyone, good and bad, and you are told “you don”t get it” or you are nice but “you have an opinion”… I think like so many people you are a target without the rest of us really realizing it. Maybe our primitive instinct to “peck” on the weakest…naive maybe…natural selection…Whatever! I have just read some of what you wrote before I selfishly took the “Good” in you for a weakness in this jungle without realizing it…your naivete and your desire to help and understand the pain of the victims should have been an inspiration. I am sorry for not listening more attentively to your “needs”…
    If it is of any comfort, you should know you are not the first teacher I tangled with…but that was a long time ago. Many battle scars since…
    Be careful but remain who you are. Gentle souls like yours are often vulnerable to more sordid attacks than my “fly in sugar” analogy.
    It is very clear you are submerged in your desire for a “better world” through a “better Church”… and you are not alone. What it will be eventually…who knows? I have faith but I believe we have to demand more to get enough, to get it right…I believe every little piece will complete the puzzle. You are part of it …and so his Ray Selbie, another one Good soul like you who can be easily attacked, because of his “rose coloured glasses”…..Ray, same goes for you. Apology and all. Try not to wear the glasses!…
    We are all in the same battle and the irresponsible leaders of the Church who allow this to continue are failing their ministry…Like parents who fail their children, like a shepherd who abandons his flock, as Sylvia would say!
    Forgive me and others…and be ready for another round!…Hopefully!

    …and to Lisa.
    I read your post right in the middle of the “debacle” last weekend and your words broke me to pieces…still do. I was going to respond but ‘someone else” posted immediately after and I preferred not to add “more sugar”… Instead I jumped in with Lina’s good , “appropriate” support for you. So, I regret you may have felt alone, in despair at that time. I and I’m sure many others, were there when you thought you were alone. I hope this will help a bit.
    To all other victims, sincere affection and friendship. Be patient with those who are trying to help and understand. It is painful for everyone. We can’t always find the right word for the right mood…
    Take care.

    Jean-Guy Theriault….jg

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