Machismo kept police quiet: Payment

Cornwall Standard Freeholder

02 May 2008

Posted By Trevor Pritchard

The "macho" culture in the city's police force in the 1980s could have kept officers from seeking help with investigations and taking advantage of counselling, the Cornwall Public Inquiry heard Thursday.

"We were the big policemen, with the macho mask, and we didn't want to show weakness," said Brian Payment, who served for 29 years with the Cornwall Police Service before retiring in 1999.

A former constable in the force's criminal investigations branch, Payment was the officer who laid the first set of charges against Newington bus driver Jean-Luc Leblanc.

In January 1986, Payment took statements from three of Leblanc's victims - Scott Burgess, Jody Burgess, and Jason Tyo - as well as a statement from teacher Dawn Raymond.

All four testified at the inquiry in 2006.

The boys' statements said Leblanc had performed oral sex on them.

Raymond's statement, however, alleged that Leblanc had anal sex with at least one of the boys.

After taking the statements to Crown attorney Don Johnson, it was decided that Leblanc would be charged with three counts of gross indecency, Payment testified.

Leblanc pleaded guilty to two of the three counts. Fifteen years later, Leblanc became the only man convicted during the OPP's four-year Project Truth investigation, after pleading guilty to 18 of 48 sex abuse charges.

He was declared a dangerous offender and is still behind bars.

Comm. Normand Glaude asked if Payment understood that Raymond's allegation could have led to more serious charges against Leblanc back in 1985.

"I would say so," said Payment, adding none of the boys disclosed any anal sex in their statements.

During his time with CIB, Payment also investigated allegations against Lucien Labelle, a Cornwall principal who stood trial in 1985 on charges he sexually abused 10 school girls.

Labelle was cleared of all charges, and an appeal to re-open the case was quashed in 1988.

Payment testified his heavy caseload while in CIB put him under "self-imposed pressure" to complete investigations quickly - pressure that affected the thoroughness of his work.

While he felt he had a good rapport with his superiors, there were also "a lot of guys that didn't want to come forward" to ask for help on investigations, Payment testified.

Payment said he was also chided by other officers about taking three months off work for personal reasons.

"In those days, if you dropped the mask, you were a wuss," he said.

Dallas Lee, an attorney for The Victims Group, asked Payment if in hindsight he should have spent more than three days investigating Leblanc before laying charges.

More victims came forward in the years after Leblanc's initial conviction - including Cindy Burgess-Lebrun, Scott and Jody's sister.

Burgess-Lebrun testified at the inquiry that Leblanc abused her over a three-year period beginning when she was 12.

"Hindsight's a good word. I agree, I should have (spent more time on the investigation)" Payment said. "But could (I) have? Or (did I have) the time to? It was very limited."

Payment testified it might have been "tunnel vision" on his part, but in 1985 the force believed Leblanc was only abusing boys.

"Can you justifiably concede that it would've been a good idea to talk to the (other) Burgess kids?" asked Lee.

"Sure," Payment said.

When Glaude asked if he had any recommendations for the inquiry, Payment said he simply wanted others to learn from his mistakes.

"If I've made any serious errors or omissions during my (police work), my only hope is it will make things better in the future," he said.

tpritchard@standard-freeholder.com

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"We were the big policemen, with the macho mask, and we didn't want to show weakness," said Brian Payment, who served for 29 years with the Cornwall Police Service before retiring in 1999.

Payment said he was also chided by other officers about taking three months off work for personal reasons.

"In those days, if you dropped the mask, you were a wuss," he said.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #1 By JungleLord,

So I am correct. The cops have their heads up their ass because you got a badge? Dude you crap and eat sleep like everyother person. Your NOT SPECIAL, your a freaking dude with a job. This boys club mentallity is what it is about...not Machismo. Its about an Eliteist club with an attitude that they are somehow above other people. That is pure arrogence and self glory of no real essence. The change in personality that comes with "power" is the first problem with anyone in power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely...is that not right Claude Shaver and Eugene Laroque?

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #2 By JungleLord,

You see in fact the actions of the cornwall police force reak of weak men with no balls. There is no honour, no machismo....nothing but disgrace and men who hide under their skirts. Men who were afraid to take control and instead were controlled. Little girls with delusions of granduer....

Any "man" that would let child abuse allegations run rampent and hide from their legislated duty is a total failure and no "man" at all. Any "man" that believed he was "special" cause he wore a badge had his head up his ass. Any "man" that did what they did was no man, not by a long shot. They were scared little girls being controlled by Claude Shaver, the puppet master.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #3 By JungleLord

And as you can tell JungleLord the macho "Line of Blue" is still busy trying to explain their way out of their responsibility for all the diddling that went on. And as far as their "Machismo" goes, it too is still alive and rotting in CornHole, how can they look in the mirror every day?

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #4 By armagedon,

Its not to serve and protect, its to turn a blind eye, what the heck.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #5 By JungleLord

The whole issue is a illusion. Some one who serves is Under you. Therefore a Priest or a Cop is a Servent, not a Master. Yet the roles are Exactly the Opposite as to the meaning of the role. We all know that the Cop holds the power and the priest...therefore they do not serve they command and if we do not obey then lookout. Yet when it comes to actualy identity of the Role, which is a servent, they always hide under thier skirts of power.

If the world would wake up and look around, you will find democracy is an illusion. Elite people decide everything, we are the serfs.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #6 By JungleLord,

So lets stand up and lets gather a petition across this country of Canada and lets create the Perry Dunlop Whistleblower Act. That way in the end he will be Vindicated and Honoured and Remembered for everything he did for us, and that is all of us, every single damn one of us in Canada. And his legicay will carry on in a important and unique way. I think its high time we became the Masters.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #7 By JungleLord,

Since I can't leave a comment in relation to the editorial on the cost of the inquiry, I'll leave it here. What's been happening with the Cornwall Community Police Service officials as the take the stand at the inquiry is indicative of why this inquiry is dragging on as long as it has. Back in December, commission lawyer Peter Engelmann said the inquiry would likely call 20 witnesses from the police force and it was expected to take four weeks. That's 20 days, or one day per officer on average. So far, we've heard from 10 officers and received an overview of documentary evidence in relation to one other officer. Those 11 witnesses have taken 36 to hear. If things continue in this fashion, it could be another 35 or so days before we're done with the police. That puts us to July 23, if things go ahead as they have over the past several weeks. The inquiry will still have at least four institutions to look at after that (the diocese, the CAS, the Attorney General and the Ontario Provincial Police.) It's inconceivable to me the inquiry will wrap up before the end of this year and it's unlikely they'll escape spending at least another $10 million or $15 million. If it goes to April of next year, which is always a possibility, that will be four years since AG Michael Bryant, Jim Brownell and Phil Poirier sat around a table at Cornwall city hall and announced when the inquiry would begin and that Glaude would be the judge. It will be four and a half years since Premier Dalton McGuinty stood in the provincial legislature and called the inquiry. No wonder so many of these cases get thrown out due to delay. Look how slowly things move in the justice system.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #8 By LocalReader,

Justice System HA what a friggin' joke

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #9 By dodger,

By the way I do support whistle blower legislation and let it be in tribute to Perry dunlop and Helen and their Children for having the courage to Stand up to this very corrupt unjust system!

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #10 By dodger,

Spread the word we need Whistle Blower Legislation In Ontario.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #11 By dodger,

word to Perry Helen and their Children Never ever give up the fight

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #12 By dodger,

Isn't iteresting that sometimes when something falls within the "bounds" of the police, the crowns and the judiciary,that somewhere along the way in the "legal system", something as simple as a time delay should mean that charges should be dropped as it was the "legal system" itself that caused the delay? If I'm not mistaken, this whole "time factor" in charging people was outlined in the 1990's with the "Askov" ruling regarding the rights to a speedy trial and it could appear to some that the "legal system" might well be "envisioning" use of the judgement handed down of that outcome for their own "method to madness!"

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #13 By armagedon