CAS not notified of alleged abuse; City police officers didn't think it was necessary

Cornwall Standard Freeholder

08 April 2008  

Posted By Trevor Pritchard

Two of the principal investigators who looked into sex abuse allegations made against a priest and a probation officer in 1993 "never thought" of notifying the local Children's Aid Society, the Cornwall Public Inquiry heard yesterday.

Staff Sgt. Luc Brunet was the head of the force's criminal investigations branch from 1993 to 1999, and oversaw Const. Heidi Sebalj's nine-month investigation into allegations raised by David Silmser against Rev. Charles MacDonald and Ken Seguin.

"It was my belief, at the time, that being the case was historical and there were no grounds to believe any recent incident had occurred, that the Children's Aid Society would not have any interest in this case," Brunet wrote in a 1995 memo to former chief Anthony Repa that was entered into evidence on Monday.

"Therefore, Const. Sebalj or I never thought of advising that agency."

In 1993, Silmser was offered - and accepted - a $32,000 payout from the Alexandria-Cornwall Roman Catholic Diocese.

The money was in exchange for Silmser not pressing charges against MacDonald, who allegedly abused him while he was an altar boy at St. Columban's Church in the 1960s and 1970s.

His file was turned over to the local CAS branch by former cop Perry Dunlop and eventually leaked to the media.

Those events helped spark the call for an inquiry into how institutions like the Cornwall Police Service and the CAS handled historical allegations of sexual abuse.

Brunet told commission counsel Pierre Dumais that,, while he and Sebalj didn't think to tell the CAS about Silmser's allegations, then-director Richard Abell should have come to police directly for more information rather than accepting Dunlop's file.

Abell knew "full well" that he was "compromising" Dunlop's position by taking the Silmser file, Brunet said.

"We (the police and the CAS) have always bent over backwards to work together as a team," said Brunet. "If they wanted to do an investigation, we would have co-operated."

While city police never laid charges against MacDonald or Seguin, the OPP charged MacDonald with more than a dozen sex-related offences in 1996 as part of their Project Truth probe.

A judge stayed the charges against MacDonald in 2002 after determining they'd taken too long to come to trial.

MacDonald has always steadfastly maintained his innocence.

Seguin committed suicide in November 1993.

spoke with Archbishop

Shortly after Silmser told police he didn't want to press charges, Brunet and then-chief Claude Shaver drove to Ottawa to speak with Archbishop Carlo Curis about permanently stripping MacDonald of his clerical duties.

The civil settlement, Brunet testified, wasn't in the community's best interest because it meant the now-retired MacDonald would still be working around children.

In a 1994 OPP interview entered into evidence, Brunet explained why he and Shaver went to Curis before approaching Eugene Larocque, who at the time was the local bishop.

"I felt that as a Catholic and a police officer, the problem had not been dealt with and there was a lot of potential for this priest to offend again," Brunet said in the interview.

Brunet told Dumais the force had clashed with Larocque during an earlier investigation involving a local priest accused of sex crimes.

"Your thoughts were the Archbishop could do something about this?" asked Dumais.

"Yes," said Brunet.

Curis was "very cordial," Brunet said, but told the officers the matter had to be dealt with at the diocesan level.

He and Shaver set up a meeting with Larocque later that day, said Brunet.

During that meeting, they confronted Larocque with evidence given by two other men that corroborated parts of Silmser's story.

The two men - known only as C-3 and C-56 - were not willing to bring their own cases against MacDonald, however.

Both Dumais and Comm. Normand Glaude wanted to know why - if Cornwall police were so concerned about community safety - that they didn't also go to the local parole office with Silmser's sexual abuse allegations against Seguin.

Silmser had told police at the start of their investigation he couldn't handle dealing with both cases at the same time, and wanted to focus on MacDonald.

Brunet said police weren't investigating Seguin and there were no witnesses to corroborate the allegations against him.

"I didn't feel that, under the law, we had any right to (go to Seguin's employers)," Brunet said.

Since the diocese had already settled out-of-court with Silmser, police weren't telling church officials anything - aside from the corroborating evidence - they didn't already know, he added. Brunet is scheduled to continue testifying when the inquiry resumes at 9:30 a.m.

What kind of an idiot is this Staff Sgt Brunet, Historical my ass. Even I know that there is NO Statute of Limitations for child abuse whether or not any recent abuse had occurred, he's a cop and should have known that HE could have investigated the Historical Abuse without going to the CAS but then again that mentality hasn't changed much from the sounds of it. Not only are the cops part of the problem and not the solution but so are the CAS, they love to bury everything and then lie to throw people off or make it so hard for victims to come forward after they've seen what they've seen. The very same thing is going on today even in my case in Hamilton so again like I've said time and time again, I'll provide all my paper-work to the Inquiry to show them step by step how it's done and how they are still to this very day operating in the same way today. And I do have a complete paper-trail including how both the CAS and HPS cover-up and lie, how my witnesses to the abuse were NEVER interviewed when I first went to the cops in 1995 and the evidence that I got from the CAS in 2004 emphatically states that the abuse happened and all the Hamilton cops have to do is get a "Warrant" and those files could be theres to look at. But no, the only people they talked to were my abusers who said "nothing happened" and the cops of today concluded and closed my case but like I said earlier, I've had them before the IPC for 3 years (almost) and I will get to the bottom of this thing in one way or the other. And this isn't just for me that I'm doing this, the reason I got involved in my own case was because something inside me spoke out and said that because I knew how the abuse felt and affected me that it was now my job to not only work for myself BUT more importantly "that if I didn't, then I was just as guilty of letting these kids get abused as the abuser was in abusing them" and the rest is history. It's the first time in my life that I have ever done anything to help a complete stranger or anyone for that mattter with the exception of my wife and our daughter. It's a good feeling, y'all ought to try it and maybe we can get those responsible behind bars and those that were responsible for neglecting what was going on (Police, CAS and TOWNSPEOPLE) to do the right thing. People of Cornwall, you owe it to those kids, you owe it to those who have hidden it for all these years and you especially owe it to yourselves to do at least one good deed in your life if you never do another one. And I'm not talking about holding a door for someone, I'm talking about stepping up and getting involved instead of hiding behind your doors and yelling into the computer and feeling like you've done something. Get off your collective asses and do something, go to the Inquiry, lodge complaints with the cops and make sure you give copies to MPP's and MP's alike and for anyone else who knows anybody who is being abused anywhere, report it and do it with some sort of pride because it is a proud thing to do if you can just stop one kid from being abused even further.

And people were wondering how this could go on for this long, the above article spells it all out to this very day so people, it's up to you. Do you like the name your city has, well only YOU can change that and I don't mean by ***ing and doing nothing, get involved like it was your own child or grandchild or cousin or aunt or uncle being abused or don't you even care about them enough? Sincerely yours, David Mark Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #1 By armagedon,

If a person in authority (police, CAS, etc.) hears a complaint of child sexual abuse against an individual, historical or not, shouldn't that person at least investigate to find out whether or not the accused still has access to young children? Any police officer or child protective services worker who claims ignorance about the fact most perpetrators have more than one victim is either uneducated or disinterested. The fact is when David Silmser made these complaints, it was against two individuals who still had the potential of coming into contact with young people through a position of trust. That alone should have been sufficient for notifying the CAS.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #2 By LocalReader,

so let me get this straight. Two of the principal investigators who looked into sex abuse allegations made against a priest and a probation officer in 1993 "never thought" of notifying the local Children's Aid Society. Why not those two accused individuals were still in positions of power and a possible threat to other children. As a pedophile ages he does not become less of a pedophile. And these people are in charge of serving and protecting. Makes me feel real comfortable knowing that my grandchildren are in good hands. like i said before Keystone Cops. You have the fox guarding the henhouse.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #3 By dodger,

Face it the entire cornwall police force is a joke, the local roman catholic church was a Child Prostitution ring and the the amount of high profile people that were aware and did nothing makes me sick.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #4 By JungleLord,

Alice in Wonderland.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #5 By JungleLord,

reminds me of the three monkeys...see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil...bunch of damn apes with no intelligence beyond the reptilian brain they possess. I hope the entire group rot in hell, if I could I would crucify them after a vicious flogging and some waterboarding.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #6 By JungleLord,

I know many of these people both accused and some that claim abuse. I just wonder why the lawyers keep digging in the same holes for the same information. Our judicial system is a joke and a fraud. I would hope that the owner of the weave shed is offering this space for free and our tax dollars are not making an already wealthy person even wealthier on the misfortune of others.

I can say with confidence I do not believe that father Charlie ever carried on is such a fashion. Being an alter boy at the time I can say that is if we were horsing around on the alter a quick shhh or if close enough a lil cuff would settle the situation.

Knowing some of the people as I did at that time we knew that boys playing with boys is wrong.

How come nobody talks about some of the goings on at the Parkway Inn back in the 70’ and 80’s the building locked doors and parking lot full. Who was the guy with the caddy convertible that always drove around town with the top down and the car full of youth? If memory serves he lived on Pitt North behind the new Tim Horton’s…
There are rumors and reports of the incidents atop the King George Restaurant. Apparently CAS knew all about it but never acted. Rumors yes maybe but unfortunately people who knew of it are all too old or scared to speak out, some even dead of old age.

An old captain use to say that kids will never be born right in Cornwall , there fathers are out whoring around so much that all they have left when they get home is piss……

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #7 By itinerant

Axix of Evil...the cornwall police force, the cornwall RC Church, the cornwall parole service. Terrorist and child prostitution ring elite that can get away with just about anything and claim all kinds of reason for not doing anything...

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #8 By JungleLord

I hope the grade of our police force and their intelligence has gone up in recent years otherwise i would be very scared for children. No wonder the pedophiles get away with things when not even the people that are supposed to be protecting us take things seriously. Perry Dunlop followed his conscience and did the right thing. Yes he did embarass a lot of higher ups by doing the right thing. Me personally I think all individual who should have done the right thing that did not do it should be charged for dereliction of duty.

maybe it's because it wasn't one of their children that were being molested maybe that is why they did not act on it. by the way check out this post at a rival website http://www.ottawasun.com/News/OttawaAndRegion/2008/04/07/5214936-sun.html the priests molesting children is not only happening in cornwall it is all over the place and yes the church is hiding it there also

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #9 By dodger,

Axix of Evil...the cornwall police force, the cornwall RC Church, the cornwall parole and legal service. Terrorist and child prostitution ring elite that can get away with just about anything and claim all kinds of reason for not doing anything...

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #10 By JungleLord,

CAS not notified of alleged abuse; City police officers didn't think

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #11 By JungleLord,

face it the world is run by deviate men who have their own agenda and the power to implement it...cornwall was a nexus of such men and their axis of evil was implemented for years...the men who make and enfore the law...what a joke, makes me sick.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #12 By JungleLord,

Can I have some waterboarding with my force fed democracy and maybe some child sex in my church...can I?

Can I wake up from this nightmare where up is down and black is white?
There is no Al Quadia (even the BBC Claims this), 9/11 is a fake out (thats a fact), Iraq is a lie (CBC makes this clear), life in Cornwall is just as insane...the truth commission...HAHAHA! Conspiracys are alive and well and dominate the world for your nothing but a serf to the elite. Your child are fodder and your brains are washed.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #13 By JungleLord,

Right on Armagedon. THIS is where it began and this is where it should have stopped. Can “you” all believe this crap, unfortunately we can, but we must “speak out” and get involved as Armagedon and others on these blogs have cried out. “Take Back the Streets and The City of Cornwall”.

Re: Theory of not reporting “Historical abuse”. JUST putrid. Let’s just suppose that a person sexually abused a child ten years ago and the victim is NOW just reporting it today. Let’s speculate that the Police Services refuse to report, investigate and if applicable, prosecute the complaints, because they classify the “acts alleged” to be “historical”. (Just putrid!!)

THEREAFTER and up to this very day in 2008, “the accused” remains in the community “at large”, interacting with hundreds of children, since in or about 1993.
DOES anyone see a problem here? My God!!

AND people wonder why, many have suspected “cover-up?”

FURTHERMORE: I worked in Cornwall from 1989 to 2000. For most of the time, I was counseling adolescents with substance abuse problems and various other “disorders”; as defined. More than one was also an “alleged” victim of sexual abuse.

I like every other “community social service” worker, counseling services, schools, teachers, police departments, lawyers, politicians, Mayor’s and EVERYONE in fact, has a legal obligation and “DUTY TO REPORT” allegations of sexual abuse, IMMEDIATELY, to “Children’s Aid Services”, the Police and other “applicable authorities”. IMMEDIATELY. No excuses!! IMMEDIATELY!!

In 1993, before 1993 and subsequent to 1993, my superiors reviewed this “un-negotiable” protocol, with myself and other co-workers, more than once.

Dunlop is chastised for doing what the “Cornwall Police Services” neglected to do, upon their receipt of the “allegations” from a “complainant”. When discovering the alleged “cover-up and payoff for silence”, Dunlop was chastised for going to the “C.A.S.” with the information and pursued by his own Cornwall Police Services.

AS what happens to me up to this day in 2008 and other people, with experience in “the field” “so-to-speak” and are perceived as being “trustworthy”, many people went to Dunlop for help. Several “agencies” or “workers” therein, also referred “alleged victims” to “The Dunlop’s” “FOR HELP!!!

IT IS MY OPINION, now, in 2008, after fifteen years of “brushing away the tracks” and “laying new tracks” , the police services are testifying and laying blame, at the feet of not only Dunlop, but now, the “C.A.S.” for not coming to them.

HELLO!!! I mean, who in their right mind, believes this?

FINALLY: NOT I, the police services or anyone for that matter, can “sit by” with allegations of sexual abuse. Despite the facts, the complainant, later on, agrees to or being is coerced into agreeing to a monetary and/or other settlement from the “accused”, in exchange for “non-disclosure and withdrawal of the complaint”, the Police Services had a “Duty To Report” IMMEDIATELY. Believe me, there is NO EXCUSE for not reporting despite “the spin” you will hear.

NO ONE is protected by law or authorized, to “sit-by” or be “party to” or “have knowledge of”, or, “have suspicion of, “negotiations, mediations, settlement discussions, etc.,” wherein the “complainant” is ultimately coerced or otherwise “induced”, into non-disclosure, secrecy and the withdraw of criminal charges, in this context, in exchange for money or other benefits.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #14 By James "SPEAK OUT",

What about those who have been molested? How long does it take for them to overcome the trauma that's been done to them? They don't! You never recover! Counsellors don't push someone away after they finally come forth asking for help. Doesn't matter how long ago it happened, it stays with you forever. It stays with the molestors forever....they know what they've done. Whatever time goes by, I'm sure they'll be able to recollect just fine the dozen or so incidents that happenes several years ago. Why the heck should it matter how many years ago it all happened. I guarantee, those who are still around today, who haven't been accused as of yet, are still doing it. As I've said before, the allegations didn't just come out of the woodwork one day.

As any decent human being, no matter what your job title, it is your OBLIGATION to REPORT CHILD ABUSE!!!!! It doesn't matter WHEN it happened, it's the fact it happened at all!!! If you know of someone who is being abused or who WAS abused....save them the grief of having to live with it inside for years, for fear of not being believed, they are alone, and the only ones who can help, are those like Perry, who believed them and did what was right. No matter how much the laws may conveniently change, he did what he needed to do!

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #15 By maggie_may79,

I see my last posting was deleted very nice whoever from the freeholder did that should be ashamed

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #16 By dodger

I apologize i was wrong about my posting being removed

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #17 By dodger,

Mandatory Reporting is law and taught to all medical professional as the reason to break confedentiallity when ever there is confession of child abuse.

I am a retired medical professional. I have seen a medical doctor in ottawa go to jail for raping his female intoxicated clients, again mandatory reporting and yeah I told the patient that if they want to share this information with me then I must break confedentiallity and report...He went to jail...I did what was mandatory by law....

Imagine if I had brought this to the police of cornwall? I did not and would not ever do that even though the patient lived in cornwall. I took it to the Ottawa Police and the College of Physicians.

Had I ever been told of child abuse as a medical professional we know what the laws are...too bad the cornwall police have their head up their ass about what the law is and mandatory reporting.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #18 By JungleLord,

They (cornwall police) should be sued for gross negligence for failure to comply with madatory reporting.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #19 By JungleLord,

People I share your opinions, however your response show a strict code of Semitism. You hate forever and that is wrong.

There is no way we will ever have our dignity back nor will any criminal be truly prosecuted for the atrocity they have committed.

What this whole inquiry was set up for is to see what went wrong. That has already been established. In a brief description for the police services a dereliction of duty and responsibilities charge would be a good start. Children’s aid, Misrepresentation, dereliction of duty and neglect would be a nice start. For the lawyers that did not figure some of the evidence was important enough to accept the case or report it to the proper authorities, disbarment and neglect should be the call.

Until Justice G. Normand Glaude quits applying for Judge Judy’s job and actually earns his money we will be no better off.
Someone needs to accept responsibility for what happened, it will take a responsible individual to make the call and at this point that person is still missing

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #20 By itinerant,

A Police Officer with the Cornwall Police Service did report an alleged sexual assault to the Children's Aid Society as he was manadated to do...as THEY were mandated to do. No one from CPS failed to comply with mandatory reporting so you should rethink your arguement...an officer from CPS DID report!!!

That officer's name is Perry Dunlop
...and Constable Sebjal would probably have done the same (although she was working with CAS at the time - so spoke to someone - but we don't know the extent of that yet) if her superior was not on the Board for the CAS and if she could trust anyone!!! (Read the transcripts Apr. 07 pg 188-190)

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #21 By RealityChecker,

CORRECT! Perry Dunlop was the ONLY ONE that followed the Law and Mandatory Reporting and he is in jail....riddle me that?

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #22 By JungleLord,

You know what happens to a medical professional that knows of reasons for mandatory reporting and does not...if the evidence comes forward, we lose our registration to practice as a medical professional. So how come Claude Shaver (Mr Golf) went to florida for a happy retirement and lots of money and a new car?
How come?

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #23 By JungleLord,

Seems to me that Mandatory Reporting is the cross they should hang on...its plain and simple and its MANDATORY...could that be any clearer?

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #24 By JungleLord,

I had no trouble seeing that physican in ottawa go to jail and I was the one that reported him. If I had not done what the law required of me based on Mandatory Reporting and someone else did and they (the college that governed my profession) found out I knew but did not report I would have lost my Registration. Mandatory Reporting is drilled into our heads from day one...I guess the Cornwall Police force never went to school.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #25 By JungleLord,

Hang on a second....I don't think Perry was the ONLY ONE!!!

The only one in jail maybe - but not the only one who went to CAS!!!

Read the transcripts!

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #26 By RealityChecker ,

Again I call it Gross Neglegance on account of Mandatory Reporting and I believe that heads should roll and people be in jail...but they got Perry in jail and millions on the coverup...I don't care what anyone says I hope they fry in hell and I hate their guts.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #27 By JungleLord,

Well stated folks to bad no one cares and those that did are in jail, so much much for being truthful. Fre Perry and put the bastards that are quiltyu in jail where they belong. But not here this is Cornwall where the guility go free and the innocient go free.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #28 By what justice,

Well JungleLord and James and all of you, this is partially where I'm at today and if you think there are problems in Cornwall that nobody wants to deal with, read the following and there's a lot more where that came from and trust me, I will go to my grave if I have to to get this abuse stopped and the Premier, Attorney General, Min of Public Safety and Corrections, the CAS and the Minister of Children's and Youth, the various police forces including the RCMP who are suppossed to be our so-called "National Protectors" are only a few of my targets. David Mark Witzel.

July 23, 2007

Ms. Rene Barrette,

Mr. Brian Beamish,

Assistant Commissioner,

Ms. Anne Kouvokian,

Commissioner, I.P.C.

Tribunal Services Dept.,

2 Bloor Street E.,

Suite 1400,

Toronto, Ontario

M4W 1A8

Mr. Beamish:

I am addressing this letter to all of you with whom I’m involved as I just don’t know who to send it to properly as I don’t want to needlessly step on anybody’s toes so, I’ll just cover the bases.

I am enclosing in this fax some more things for the IPC to read and study regarding the competency and honesty of the HPS and how they have been using or trying to use the public, myself and the IPC before we get into the nitty-gritty of my upcoming case. You will also find some documents from the HWCAS which state that the ABUSE did happen and you will also find the 2 page “Complaints Procedure” as ordered in Sec 68 of the Child and Family Services Act. Please take note of the 3 contact names and the procedures that I am to go through to have my complaints heard. Then look for those same 3 names in the HWCAS’s 2 page inter-office e-mail who are supposed to deal with me by law and you will see that they conspired to NOT deal with my complaint as they say “upper management staff” should deal with me. Now I know that the CAS is out of your jurisdiction but I will explain why these documents are important for you all to at least read.

The next document you will see is the threat from Supt. Glyn Wide dated AUG. 8/06 where he talks about a review that failed to uncover any criminal actions by either the foster family or the HWCAS. How come the HWCAS’s own 2 page inter-office e-mail which is dated FEB 3/04 emphatically states in the 1st paragraph on pg 11 and I quote “In reviewing the Intake Material since 1998, it appears that OUR FILES SUPPORT Mr. Witzel’s allegation that he was harshly disciplined and or abused while in one of our foster homes.” And we have this WIDE clown saying nothing happened and even refers to the biological children when he states “Their lack of recall , as children, does not constitute a criminal offence and therefore they will not be charged criminally as you have demanded.”. What this WIDE clown fails to state is that yes, the biological son was a child who participated in the abuse BUT, the daughter was an ADULT and got married and had a child when all of this was going on, so she was definitely NOT a “child” in regards to AGE even though she was a “child” of the abusive family. When that HWCAS’s 2 page inter-office e-mail stated the abuse happened, why did the HPS not go back to that family and charge them for lying to the HPS who were investigating child sexual, physical and mental abuse or at the very least interfering with an investigation or being a public nuisance or whatever. Further to that, I have a letter from the Director Vertuccio of the HWCAS who said the last contact the HPS had with the HWCAS was in June 1998 (even though the Detectives notes say that they were in touch with the HWCAS in August/98) and since I came forward to the HWCAS in 2004, the HPS hasn’t formally or informally gotten in touch with the HWCAS nor has a warrant been asked for that I know of. The HPS screwed my case up from Oct 2/95 when they only went to my abusers and have since then been busy covering their collective asses and the rot starts at the top and goes right on down.

The last 15 pages of this FAX are prime examples of the Hamilton Police Services lies, cover-ups, negligence and more CRIMINAL ACTS by officers within the HPS. I know the motto for the Toronto Police Force is “To Serve and Protect” but I think in the case of the Hamilton Police Services the question should be asked is this, WHO ARE THE H.P.S. TO SERVE AND PROTECT? When you read those last 15 pages and I have lots more exactly like that, I think that you will discover what I have been trying to convey and that is that the HPS cannot be trusted and their word is even worth less than the paper it’s printed on. And as dishonest as they have been with me and to the IPC, can you imagine as you go through those last 15 pages the effect the HPS has had on the lives of other innocent people who they set-up and whose lives they ruined, some of them dating back to the 60’s. Look at the dates on those 15 pages and really look deeply into the cases and you will find that the HPS’s ineptitude and callous disregard for the law is not only stunning but it carries on to this very day. These things that the HPS have been doing are not “Exceptions to the rules”, but are in fact THE RULE!!! ALL of these cases on those 15 pages have occurred in less than the LAST TWO YEARS!!!!!! And that just happens to be the length of time that they have been lying and dealing with my case and the I.P.C. and I don’t think they’re the only force doing that. Personally, I have lost both my faith and trust now in ALL police forces and can fully understand why they don’t get the help from the public that want, the public’s not stupid!

They have gotten used to doing things their own ways and screw everybody else including me and the INFORMATION PRIVACY COMMISSION so as I suggested before, I think the IPC should call in an outside agency to investigate the HPS and my case in particular should be judged on the truth, not the HPS’s “Version” of the truth. The paperwork that was generated from the HPS (occurrence report, officer’s notes, etc.) is filled with lies that I have pointed out to the IPC and yet decisions were made based on those lies. Now if you look at that paperwork that was generated, about 95% was whited out and heaven only knows what lie filled stories are within the whited out part and I’ll stick my neck out when I tell you this next part. Within the whited out parts, going back to the 1995 “investigation” I would be willing to bet that the HPS never ever did make physical contact with my abuser family (so the HPS could make assessments of their re-actions at the very least) and like I said before, I want ALL of those statements to be given to me in their entirety with only the names whited out. Or failing that, I would like your office to be given the complete notes and reports so that the IPC could see for themselves and make their own decisions either with or without me, but preferably with my knowledge. I already know most of what went on and who was either talked to or not talked to and I know what happened way back then as it happened to my brother and I and I can’t forget that even if I wanted to. It is both a fact and a part of my life and I’ve been going to an abused men’s group for years at the Scarboro Centenary Hospital, Shonicker Building to deal with all that’s been done to me back then and the horrible abuse that the HPS has heaped on my plate on top of all that has been an issue that at times has even been harder on me because of the effects that it has been having on other innocent people that I don’t even know that are being harmed by the very institution that is supposed to help and protect them.

I wish also to have all of the paperwork that the HPS and I filed with the IPC in my 1st FOI to be brought in and be part of this 2nd FOI, please and thank you.

Anyway, I have lots of paper work that I will be filing when the time comes during my dealings with the HPS and the IPC so with that I bid you good-bye and thank you for listening to me. Sincerely, David Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #29 By armagedon,

The Fax's that I was talking about amount to about 40 pages and verifies EVERYTHING that I said when I wrote that letter almost a year ago and they are part of the evidence that I have before the Information Privacy Commission where we are eventually going to go to our 2nd Adjudication. It's a lot of work but like I said before, I AM SICK OF THIS ABUSE BEING ALLOWED TO GO ON BECAUSE OF THE NEGLIGENCE OF THE VARIOUS POLICE FORCES, CAS's AND CCAS's AND THE VARIOUS MINISTRIES UNDER DICTATOR DALTON MCGUINTY and Dick if you're reading this, UP YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry about that ADOLPH, I didn't want to neglect you but as you see, you got off reeeeeeeeeeeal easy so far, I was almost polite to you whether you know it or not! David Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #30 By armagedon,

And to the Inquiry and all of those others who want to see this all dropped and hidden and forgotten, my offer still stands to bring ALL of my paperwork to the Inquiry and if you "bad-assed" lawyer and the rest of you clowns want to take on somebody, take me up on my offer instead of picking on defenceless people and not even having the balls to do it to their faces. I'd love to tangle with the whole goddamn lot of you, so please do invite me as it's going on all over or DON'T YOU WANT TO STOP IT JUSTICE GLAUDE?

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #31 By armagedon,

I guess the "SF" has chosen to NOT provide "blog-comment space" on the article "posted 2 hours ago". April 08, 2008. "Brunet:" is quoted, "I have always served with honour and integrity."

I would say that LATELY, these "blogs-comments and articles" are being watched closer than Fort Knox."

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #32 By James "SPEAK OUT",

I guess the "SF" is not permitting blogs-comments on the article posted 2 hours ago entitled, "Brunet:" "I have always served with honour and integrity."

Unfortunate, wouldn't you agree.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #33 By James "SPEAK OUT",

I am dismayed and utterly disgusted with your story Dave. I am not so niave to imagine that they are all inept...rather they are corrupt. The police and roman catholic church and the cas can all go F themself. The coverup is beyond the primer and like I said its NWO.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #34 By JungleLord,

Hey James, nice to see you writing and yes "Unfortunate" I would agree and more, but hey it would appear that we are getting to them, some of the blogs came back but the really "Good Ones" didn't, but maybe they'll learn and if not, well............... I don't think it would be too difficult for everybody to get in touch with everybody they know in the world and get them to sign up for the Standard-Freeloader at a certain time and date for "max" effect, but "unfortunately" that might create a DOS (Denial of Service) and their whole, lousy, controlled blog and paper would come to a complete standstill, isn't that called a "crash" and if everybody did it again and again, well then maybe the Freeloader will get the point, not that I would ever suggest that people do that, eh? And to just think, that could happen anywhere to any paper, hello Ottawa, are you listening, cause I think I'm gonna visit with you in a while. Been a long time since I visited that cess-pool, we'll have to check it out again before I go more senile than I already am. That's the nice thing as you get older, you can fluff off things to "senility" and people don't question it! See ya, Dave

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #35 By armagedon,

Well JungleLord, you know me, "if I can't be good, I'll be good and bad!" Yeh you're right, they are corrupt but the Hamilton Police Services is so bad that they are too inept to be inept, not unlike most cop shops. Cover-up, corrupt, liars and the list goes on but they all fit and fit other cop shops as well only Hamilton was stupid enough to put it on paper and mail it to me and the IPC. However JungleLord having or telling the cops and church to go F themselves might make US feel good but it doesn't help those who were abused so we have to think of more to do rather than call them what they are. The point is that it's the kids and those abused adults who survive today that we have a reason to do more than just name call even though you know I agree with you there. You're beginning to see something starting to form, I don't know where it's going, but it has been started by all of us IN SPITE of the cops, CAS, Standard etc., etc., so be patient and DON'T give up, it's taken me over 50 years to get this far and I'm not noted for patience as you can gather in some of the things I say. WE ALL ARE OUR OWN SUPPORT GROUP and things will reveal itself and we can move on to something positive about this whole mess. By the by, what is NWO, I've tried to figure it out but, I'm kinda brain dead at this moment. Take care JL sincerely Dave Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #36 By armagedon,

Well JungleLord, you know me, "if I can't be good, I'll be good and bad!" Yeh you're right, they are corrupt but the Hamilton Police Services is so bad that they are too inept to be inept, not unlike most cop shops. Cover-up, corrupt, liars and the list goes on but they all fit and fit other cop shops as well only Hamilton was stupid enough to put it on paper and mail it to me and the IPC. However JungleLord having or telling the cops and church to go F themselves might make US feel good but it doesn't help those who were abused so we have to think of more to do rather than call them what they are. The point is that it's the kids and those abused adults who survive today that we have a reason to do more than just name call even though you know I agree with you there. You're beginning to see something starting to form, I don't know where it's going, but it has been started by all of us IN SPITE of the cops, CAS, Standard etc., etc., so be patient and DON'T give up, it's taken me over 50 years to get this far and I'm not noted for patience as you can gather in some of the things I say. WE ALL ARE OUR OWN SUPPORT GROUP and things will reveal itself and we can move on to something positive about this whole mess. By the by, what is NWO, I've tried to figure it out but, I'm kinda brain dead at this moment. Take care JL sincerely Dave Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #37 By armagedon,

See JL, I told you I was having a brain dead moment, I wonder if I was a Blonde in my past life or what, eh? And ladies before ya jump all over me, I've got a warped good sense of humour, so be cool, I wasn't aiming at anyone, I'm not that SUBTLE!! Dave Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #38 By armagedon

Here' the 2 page internal e-mail from within the Hamilton CAS where they discuss my case and the ensuing start to the cover-up.

Your Comment: Well JungleLord, you know me, "if I can't be good, I'll be good and bad!" Yeh you're right, they are corrupt but the Hamilton Police Services is so bad that they are too inept to be inept, not unlike most cop shops. Cover-up, corrupt, liars and the list goes on but they all fit and fit other cop shops as well only Hamilton was stupid enough to put it on paper and mail it to me and the IPC. However JungleLord having or telling the cops and church to go F themselves might make US feel good but it doesn't help those who were abused so we have to think of more to do rather than call them what they are. The point is that it's the kids and those abused adults who survive today that we have a reason to do more than just name call even though you know I agree with you there. You're beginning to see something starting to form, I don't know where it's going, but it has been started by all of us IN SPITE of the cops, CAS, Standard etc., etc., so be patient and DON'T give up, it's taken me over 50 years to get this far and I'm not noted for patience as you can gather in some of the things I say. WE ALL ARE OUR OWN SUPPORT GROUP and things will reveal itself and we can move on to something positive about this whole mess. By the by, what is NWO, I've tried to figure it out but, I'm kinda brain dead at this moment. Take care JL sincerely Dave Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #39 By armagedon,

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #40 By JungleLord,

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #41 By dodger,

Dodger, you've heard everything that I've called your town and your people and most of it was in anger about what's NOT happening at the Inquiry but there was a real reason for it. Some people on both this blog and others have taught me a lot since I first started on this blog thingee so, I think I'll set a few people back on theirs asses when I state the following. Part of the reason I said what I said was out of anger but also anger at the whole system for allowing the abuses to go on and when I hopped into this blog, all I could see was people just expressing their anger about whatever with nothing directed to anything that would be helpful for the VICTIMS OF THE ABUSES or the town. It seemed that everybody was becoming theirs and everybody elses enemy and forming cliques and the like and forgetting the fact that "In numbers there is strength" but if the numbers are scattered and angry at each other, well then the SYSTEM has us right where they can see you. Not only that but they can see that nothing is getting accomplished in the right direction so they've got you where they want you and know what you think and write. And this isn't to scare you or anybody, they all were and are playing us for fools at the abused kids expence and the System gets away with another. You know I was in the United States Marines for 3 years with 13 months fighting on the front lines in Viet Nam and one of our prime weapons was this, "DIVIDE AND CONQUER". It worked well for us and has worked well for centuries and it is obvious that this is also the plan that is going on right now, but MANY can play that game and I know it VERY WELL.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #42 By armagedon

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #43 By dodger,

And one more thing although it's kinda like using the "carrot and stick approach and are you all ready for this one as it connects kinda to my Post#29 but in a different direction and the clown I nailed was David Zimmer who was with the Attorney Generals Office and must be used as a door stop.

JUSTICE POLICY COMMITTEE/11?

From: davidwitzel

Sent: April 8, 2008 10:36:01 PM

To: cornwall@theinquiry.ca; letterstotheeditor@standard-freeholder.com STANDING

COMMITTEE ON
JUSTICE POLICY
COMITÉ PERMANENT
DE LA JUSTICE Thursday 26 April 2007 Jeudi 26 avril 2007PROVINCIAL ADVOCATE FOR
CHILDREN AND YOUTH ACT, 2007
LOI DE 2007 SUR L’INTERVENANT
PROVINCIAL EN FAVEUR DES ENFANTS
ET DES JEUNESPOPLAR ROAD JUNIOR PUBLIC SCHOOL CHILDREN’S ADVISORY GROUPPAUL DAGENAISVOICES FOR CHILDRENDAVID WITZELINTERMINISTERIAL PROVINCIAL ADVISORY COMMITTEESARAH-JANE DAGGSAMUEL FRAGOMENIJEFFERY WILSONTIKINAGAN CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICESSIOUX LOOKOUT FIRST NATIONS HEALTH AUTHORITYONTARIO ASSOCIATION
OF CHILDREN’S AID SOCIETIESDEFENCE FOR CHILDREN INTERNATIONAL–CANADACONNERY BEARDYSUDBURY ACTION CENTRE FOR YOUTHYOUTH POLICY ADVISORY
AND ADVOCACY GROUPNISHNAWBE ASKI NATION
DECADE YOUTH COUNCILCEDARBRAE COLLEGIATE
INSTITUTE YOUTH GROUPREGIONAL MULTICULTURAL
YOUTH COUNCILTOWN YOUTH PARTICIPATION STRATEGIESNETWORK GROUP,
PAPE ADOLESCENT RESOURCE CENTREThe committee met at 0905 in room 228.PROVINCIAL ADVOCATE FOR
CHILDREN AND YOUTH ACT, 2007
LOI DE 2007 SUR L’INTERVENANT
PROVINCIAL EN FAVEUR DES ENFANTS
ET DES JEUNES

Consideration of Bill 165, An Act to establish and provide for the office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth / Projet de loi 165, Loi visant à créer la charge d’intervenant provincial en faveur des enfants et des jeunes et à y pourvoir.

The Chair (Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti): I’d like to call the meeting of the standing committee on justice policy to order. Could everyone please take a seat. I’d like to welcome you all here. Good morning. If those in the back can get a seat, we can begin.

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I’m wondering if we can move the screen temporarily. I know it may be a little bit of trouble, but the bottom line is that there are kids in the back who can’t see what’s going on here, and I really think it would be appropriate if we let the children who have bothered to come here watch the proceedings as much as possible.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod (Nepean–Carleton): The Progressive Conservative Party supports that.

The Chair: We’ll move on now to our next deputation, David Witzel. I hope I pronounced your last name correctly, and I apologize if I made a mistake with it.

Mr. David Witzel: Good morning. I’d like to thank everybody, first of all. I have a few things to say before I get into the nitty-gritty of this. I’m very surprised that with the seven-page letter that I wrote you, that you’ve read, that you invited me to speak. Thank you very kindly. You surprised me to no end.

You read the letter. I wish to apologize for the foul language that I used. I’m sorry about using it. My apologies to you all for that language. I have some things to explain. I was put in the care of the children’s aid society with my brother in the 1950s. At four years old and six years old we were sexually, physically and mentally abused with the full knowledge of the children’s aid society. That might give you some idea of why the language was used—inappropriately, but why it was used.

I personally think that there’s room for a provincial advocate. However, this advocacy that you have here is a sham unless you give the advocate total independence and prosecutorial powers to enforce and prosecute those who dare harm children. Other than that, it’s a great thing. The young people who spoke today, I hope you listen to them. The young lady Stephanie, 21 years old, who went through the system, I hope you listen to her. You haven’t heard great things about this committee yet because it’s flawed in the way that I say. It should be independent and given teeth. Either that or give the powers of this committee over to the Ombudsman’s office, who has the powers now.

The Liberal government, seen to go to the Ombudsman’s office when they had problems with the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. and then publicly crowing about it, doesn’t have the faith to go to the Ombudsman’s office and give them the powers of oversight of children’s aid. I find it staggering: that we were more concerned about lotteries than we are about abused children.

I’ll take you to page 1 of the stuff I brought in this morning. I have a friend, Jean-Paul Brouillette, who, when he was seven years old, because there was no room for him in the foster homes and the children’s aid in Quebec, was put into an adult mental institution, where he was raped time and time again until he got old enough to stop it. He became a violent biker. He hurt people. He attempted murder. He just got out of jail after 10 years for attempted murder. The system made him what he is. The man has now changed. He is my best friend. Both of us went through hell like you never can imagine, and I wish nobody would ever have to go through that.

If you would all turn to page 8, please, of this handout. We have a letter from the Ontario Association of Children’s Aid Societies, who I notice are coming on to the menu in a little while, and maybe they can explain a few of these things. The OACAS says, second sentence, “This means every children’s aid society sets their own policies in regard to foster parenting and adoption, and, (I assume) accessing a client’s file.... CASs do not report to the OACAS, nor do we have any authority over how a CAS delivers services.” How come the OACAS is the mouthpiece, spouting their propaganda on behalf of the children’s aid, and we can’t ask them questions because it regards the children’s aid? Who made them? This letter here says that each children’s aid society sets their own policies.

We’ll go to page 9, please. It appears to conflict with the Minister of Children and Youth Services, Mrs. Mary Anne Chambers, who states, second paragraph, second sentence, “The government’s role is to fund, legislate and monitor the child welfare system. My ministry sets policy and provides program design for child welfare and licences”—blah, blah, blah. That’s a conflict with what the OACAS just finished saying.

Who’s running this ship? The OACAS says that every children’s aid society sets their own policies. The minister says she sets them. There’s a little bit of a conflict there.

Under section 68, each children’s aid society is supposed to have a complaints procedure set out. Please go to page 10. You’ll see the names Theresa Flynn, Lorraine Marshall and Cecilia Taylor, my steps 1, 2 and 3 to access the complaints procedure of the Children’s Aid Society of Hamilton-Wentworth. Those are the people I’m supposed to see.
Please go to page 11. Look at the very names. You see Lorraine Marshall, you see Theresa Flynn and you see Cecilia Taylor, all on the complaints procedure. Go down to the very last paragraph on that page. “From my perspective, the reasons for having upper management ... respond to this man’s request on behalf of the agency were valid in 2000 and remain in place.” These people are the ones I’m to address my complaint to, and they’re already stating that they aren’t going to deal with me, which they didn’t. They refer me to upper management. I can’t get to upper management until I go through these people. They wouldn’t answer the phones. They wouldn’t answer my replies. So much for section 68 and the laws regarding that.
1000

Now please go to page 13. This is from the Hamilton police department. Superintendent Wide, or Inspector Wide, who threatens me, states that the biological children do not recall any abuse. However, I’ll take you back to page 11, first paragraph, last sentence: “In reviewing the intake material since 1998, it appears that our files support Mr. Witzel’s allegation that he was harshly disciplined and/or abused....” I now have a threatening letter from a superintendent of the Hamilton police force that I went to saying that nothing happened. The children’s aid said it happened. I said it happened. The police won’t even access the records to find out, and I provided all of this information to them.

I had the police before the privacy commissioner for almost two years. The privacy commissioner has issued two sets of interim orders against the Hamilton police department questioning, among other things, their qualifications as police officers and their knowledge of the job, starting from the Chief of Police Brian Mullan, through the detectives, the inspectors, right down to the very professional standards branch. This is the privacy commission questioning their capabilities as police officers. It makes me shudder. You can read about that same police force from page 16 right through to page 25. Please do read it.

I have gone through every step that the government for the last three or four years has outlined that I’m supposed to do. There have been roadblocks thrown up in my way every single place I turn, with the exception of Andrea Horwath. I have fired letters at the Attorney General, the Premier, the Ministry of Children and Youth Services and had no response. I have the evidence. What’s wrong with this situation? Why doesn’t the Ombudsman have it? If you are going to create a children and youth advocate, give somebody the power of oversight.

I will leave that with you. I’ll take any questions. If anybody wants to talk with me afterwards, whether it be the audience or the members here, please do. Thank you for listening. I’ve held my temper and watched my tongue as best I can. It’s up to you. You may ask.

The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Witzel. There’s about a minute per party of questions. Of course, as Mr. Witzel said, if you want to, you can ask him more questions outside. We’ll begin with the PC Party.

Ms. MacLeod: Thank you, Mr. Witzel, for coming here today and providing us with some information not only on your experience but your views on how we should proceed. Mr. Witzel, do you think that the independent child advocate should be legislated to deal with people over the age of 18 who are still receiving services from the province of Ontario?

Mr. Witzel: Ms. MacLeod, yes, I think the provincial child and youth advocate seems to have come in the back door and cut the families out of the deal. That means people over the age of 18 who might not only have been wards of the society, like I was, but who might have problems with the system after they turn 18. Here I am, 60 years old, and it’s taken me over 40 years, living the life that I’ve lived, nightmares every single night of my life, to come. If we left it the way it is right now, that would mean I wouldn’t be able to approach the people and get some justification. I’m here not to undo—I can’t undo what happened to me—I don’t want it happening to these kids. The government doesn’t seem to get it. These kids: I don’t want them to have to go through what I have to go through.

Jeffrey Baldwin was starved to death by his grandparents. When I was being abused, I wished I’d been killed. Isn’t that a heck of a thing to say?

So, yes, I think it should include the families or anybody who becomes involved with the children’s aid.

God, give somebody the powers of oversight so they can not just review but they can prosecute, or give it over to the Ombudsman and tie the two offices together and give them that.

Ms. MacLeod: Thanks for your courage in sharing this with us today.

Mr. Witzel: I’m sorry for getting so hot, but I am.

Ms. MacLeod: Hey, do you know what? You’re a little bit more calm than some people were in question period yesterday—I’m speaking of myself, of course.

Ms. Horwath: I just want to reiterate my support for the whole issue of Ombudsman oversight for children’s aid societies. You may be interested to know that the Ombudsman actually wrote a letter to the committee, which we received yesterday, once again indicating his support for an independent child advocate but saying that making this office of the child advocate independent definitely does not in any way say that it still does not require that in-tandem move of having the Ombudsman have independent oversight. I’m still bringing the petitions into the Legislature, so we’re still on that track, and hopefully one day the government will see the light of day and know that that is the right thing to do and needs to happen.

That’s the first thing.

The second thing is, you did a great job. You didn’t even swear once. That was awesome. Thank you very much for coming.

Mr. Witzel: Thank you. I have, on page 8A, what you were talking about regarding Mr. André Marin.

As much as you people received my seven-page letter and you saw me slamming this, I also slammed the privacy commissioner, I’ve slammed the Ombudsman. I talked with the Ombudsman’s office for a couple of hours yesterday.

I think the Ombudsman should be given the powers, people.

As much as you people read that I slammed the Liberal Party, this is not all the Liberal Party’s doing. The NDP and the Liberals and the Conservatives have all been in power since the children’s aid society was conceived in 1892. All of the parties that have been in power since the inception of the children’s aid society are responsible for the neglect of the children. It just happens that the Liberal Party is the majority and in charge right now. They got the biggest hammering, but all the parties are responsible.

I think it’s long overdue that the lid is lifted off the Pandora’s box so we can all deal with something that’s important, and that is stopping the abuse of children. Let’s have all three parties finally get together, for once in the history of the province of Ontario, and do something rather than giving yourselves a raise. The most important thing in the world is the children. Let’s have all three parties get their act together and work together to protect the children, please. If you never do anything, do that.

The Chair: Any questions or comments from the Liberals?

Mrs. Van Bommel: You’ve given us lots of information, and my question has already been addressed, so thank you very much.

Mr. Witzel: Once again, I apologize for cursing in the letters.

Mr. Witzel: Mr. Chair, may I have a word with the committee?

The Chair: Yes.

Mr. Witzel: It takes so much for all of us people to come down here. This man is speaking. He has obviously lost rights to his child. Can you please instruct the members of this committee—I’m not naming anybody in particular—to forget about his BlackBerry and turning around and looking at a picture of a dead guy on the wall while this poor man is speaking, Mr. Zimmer?

The Chair: Excuse me, sir. The committee has got rules. We’re trying our very best to balance hearing everybody as well as allowing everyone to come in.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #44 By armagedon,

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #45 By armagedon,

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #46 By itinerant,

Holy crap, I posted that last comment not noticing there was another page. However my question still stands, how do we fix it?What I see now is socialism at its best. Confused and frustrated by mis information from the media and nowhere to seek help for the masses. I am telling you read about Karl Marx, it was his dream to have a social order like we have.Mission accomplished, that is unless we do something to stop it. It is a society not unlike Germany in the 1930, poor economy, and mistrust in government possible untouchable corruption in every level of society. Like it or not people, Canada on its current course inaction and bastardized totalitarianism by government, is the next prime location for a dictatorship.

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #47 By itinerant,  

People need to wake up to many devices of the NWO. This is just one of them. I would not even call it socialism, that is far too tame for what is going on in coverups and governments. The NWO is famous for child sex rites. Luciferian rites of power and domination over the most innocent and powerless, perpertrated by the RC Church, the Police and the legal system, while the government protection coverup enables them to continue their ways of lucifer. The world is in deep doo doo right now. Do your really know what the truth is on many levels? The Elite rule the world and sell us stories of false flags (9/11) imaginary enemies (al quadia), lies that lead to two wars of corruption (iraq and afghanistan) and yet the world spins merrily along. Most people have not a clue as to what is going on or going down. This is just the tip of the iceburg, yet like the titanic its full speed ahead into the darkness

.Reply | Report | Page Top Post #48 By JungleLord,

Hey JungleLord, you're beginning to sound a bit like me and others and the rant about the NWO, Luciferian rites, the Elite, 9/11, wars of corruption doesn't seem to be doing anything but confuse(speaking for myself)people to the point that I had to ask you what NWO means. I think we're concerned about the ABUSED VICTIMS and when I read your writings and I do every day, I have to bring out my book on deciphering the "Dead Sea Scrolls". I'm trying only to be polite and help you from other peoples perspective, you've got a lot of good points but when you mix them all together and you're all over the map with them, it makes for hard reading and confusing. I know I'm long winded and I rant too but I have found that I have to control my anger and deal with the point at hand, we all know that governments all over the world are corrupt and that there are conspiracies going on ALL over. One other thing that I also didn't mention but some people re: the Inquiry knows is that when I came home from Viet Nam, I was stationed at Camp LeJeune, North Carolina and the outfit that I was attached to was called G-2-Counter-Intelligence and at that time, it was world wide counter-intelligence we were concerned with so I do have a bit of knowledge in that department and what you've been talking about has been going on since mankind was invented. You're a smart person and all I'm trying to do is help you control and focus on what the issues HERE are and I hope you don't take what I've just said in the wrong way because it was meant in a good way. Take care, Dave Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #49 By armagedon

Itinerant, I'll borrow a quote from the original movie MASH and ask you, "What's with all the negativity"? You're right about dictatorship and Germany in the 30's but I think the KEY thing that you talked about was that it happened because the people didn't either prevent or stop it and then it was too late. We are far ahead in the respect that at least ALL of us are questioning now and talking openly and objecting even though they don't seem to hear. You've seen what's been happening lately in this blog, more people are opening up and taking a stand IN SPITE of the Standard and the Inquiry and others who don't appear to give a damn. We're ALL doing something now and getting more organized and as it says in the "Good Book" Rome wasn't built in a day, and we are going in the right direction instead of 100's of different directions. Organization and all of us working toward a COMMON GOAL is the key and it takes a bit of time. Just think, 2 months ago, I'd never blogged in my life and now, I might be a pain in the butt, but people have learned from me and I KNOW I've learned a lot from people here which I didn't expect. We're getting there and if nothing else, you've seen that people aren't afraid to comment on postings being deleted and aren't afraid to confront the powers that be in the Standard and THAT in itself is a really good start. Keep the faith and "May the Force be with you!" Can't help it IT, I just LOVE that phrase. Sincerely, Dave Witzel

Reply | Report | Page Top Post #50 By armagedon,